Brit :) [Archive] - Xtreme PC Central Tech Forums

LordKwiKSilva00

10-15-2003, 8:31 PM

http://www.digitalmntsnow.com/images/Mike-Chris-Dave%20Shooting.jpg

edit: mebbe i dont wanna see snows gun collection, i see a 9mm glock in that pic, the infamous m16(minus the a4 grenade launcher, snowy, how could you forget that :D) and a S&W 357...my collection doesnt come anywhere near that...remind me to stay outta the hills of utah for awhile :D or at least stay close to the AF base til i can tote my M16 around with the A4 attachment :D hehe, j/k

Mntsnow

10-15-2003, 10:30 PM

This might give you a clue to just some of my collection
http://www.xtremepccentral.com/gallery//showphoto.php?photo=117

mholtum

10-15-2003, 11:28 PM

Originally posted by LordKwiKSilva00
http://www.digitalmntsnow.com/images/Mike-Chris-Dave%20Shooting.jpg

edit: mebbe i dont wanna see snows gun collection, i see a 9mm glock in that pic, the infamous m16(minus the a4 grenade launcher, snowy, how could you forget that :D) and a S&W 357...my collection doesnt come anywhere near that...remind me to stay outta the hills of utah for awhile :D or at least stay close to the AF base til i can tote my M16 around with the A4 attachment :D hehe, j/k

Mike I would be proud to loan you whatever you need to help protect your lovely daughters honor.. I would also volunteer my services in a night drop! ;)

LordKwiKSilva00

10-16-2003, 12:59 AM

lol mholtum...

and snow, i see a glock, a couple of "pea shooters", a 45 or 2, a 44 and what looks to be a colt 1911 army model 45(?)

nice collection, how bout ya rifles and shotguns??? my personal fav gun that i have is a toss up between my winchester 30-30 model 94 lever action(cowboy killer, actual original model 94 from 1894) with 15 shot magazine and my 12 guage mossberg semi auto that fires up to 3.25" nitro mags(3x, 2 in the magazine, one in the chamber)

great guns, but my fav handgun hafta be a 45 S&W with 15 shot clip :D :D :D hehe, so much power :p

LordKwiKSilva00

10-16-2003, 1:04 AM

btw, you dont happen to have an M79 or 2 lying around do ya :D :D :D hehe

mholtum

10-16-2003, 1:33 AM

No but I do have a MP5SD and a MP5K and a M4 (chopped M16) full autos. Numerous HKUSP45(2) HKUSP40LEM and a couple Para Ordanace 16-45's (16 rounds of 45ACP) Glock G32 (357 auto) 4"

well the list goes on...

LordKwiKSilva00

10-16-2003, 1:51 AM

lol...nice collection...kinda makes me wish i had my weapons permit already :D cant wait, 2 more months then i can be a gun totin' SOB along with you guys in utah...depends it they send me to TX or utah for basic training(prolly salt lake city AF base)

LordKwiKSilva00

10-16-2003, 1:55 AM

btw, how'd u get ahold of full autos anyways??? self modified??? or are they black marker overstock :D :P j/k

mholtum

10-16-2003, 2:06 AM

Federal Firearms License.. I can buy pretty much anything.. I got the M4 while still in the Army (75th RANGER RMT) ft benning GA.

Its Hill Air Force Base. I am not sure they have a training area at Hill but they could.

LordKwiKSilva00

10-16-2003, 2:34 AM

cool...thats why i want my military firearms liscense :D i can legally own an M16-A4 then (use it for huntin in tha backwoods...i miss with the m16, i always got the A4...saves me time guttin and cookin the deer :D :D :D LOL ) and then i get to buy myself a sidearm 45 S&W to go wit it :D hehe...i know, i sound psycho, but i like guns...what seperates me from the psychos that tote guns is i wont shoot anyone...i can control myself...

ThRoNkA

10-16-2003, 7:58 AM

OMG!!! ::runs and hides:: Why the guns?

GohanSSJ

10-16-2003, 10:09 AM

Because you are aiming at the wrong girl. ;) :p

Personally i think guns are stupid, also the percentage of guns in the netherlands is much and much lower then in America etc

tmx468

10-16-2003, 10:16 AM

You can aim at any girl you like....

But if you wanna succeed, then Thronka... I'd move on ;)

mholtum

10-16-2003, 10:27 AM

HeHeHe (http://www.crinamex.com/julydbs.wmv)

Mntsnow

10-16-2003, 11:08 AM

Thanks Mike....That hit the spot :D

GohanSSJ

10-16-2003, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by tmx468
You can aim at any girl you like....

But if you wanna succeed, then Thronka... I'd move on ;)
What about "But if you wanna stay alive, then Thronka..." ;)

LordKwiKSilva00

10-16-2003, 3:04 PM

lol, what wrong with guns thronka??? i just like to go out and shoot for fun and sport(and occasionally blow up a renegade computer system :D :D :D) thats all...its fun, it occupies time, and you ger out of the house for a bit

ThRoNkA

10-16-2003, 7:27 PM

Im afraid of them! I got shot with one last year.

mholtum

10-16-2003, 7:31 PM

Originally posted by ThRoNkA
Im afraid of them! I got shot with one last year. I was shot twice while in the ARMY ( 2 purple hearts) lost half my right lung.. I still love guns! Guns dont hurt people, people hurt people.

LordKwiKSilva00

10-16-2003, 10:43 PM

good point mholtum...and thronka, dont be afraid of em, they arent that bad

ThRoNkA

10-18-2003, 9:49 AM

Well thats your opinion. Not mine :(

GohanSSJ

10-18-2003, 11:37 AM

It's a valid but bad point, if there were no guns then the world would be better.

Mntsnow

10-18-2003, 12:15 PM

Nope it wouldnt be a better place...It is human nature to destroy and it will continue to do so with or without a tool that uses an explosive powder..

ThRoNkA

10-18-2003, 12:41 PM

hmm.. I am going to go back to talking about computers :P

LordKwiKSilva00

10-18-2003, 12:51 PM

i agree with snow on that...human nature says that we must destroy to be able to create...

and thronka, you do that :p :D hehe

ThRoNkA

10-18-2003, 1:14 PM

Well go look for my new thread on support :P

EDIT: WOOHOO!! I GOT MY PAYCHECK and A COMISSION CHECK TODAY!!! MAN I AM SOOOO HAPPY!!! THE COMMISSION GOES TO THE NEW BUILD!!!! ...erm err.. Did I do that?

GohanSSJ

10-18-2003, 4:32 PM

Originally posted by Mntsnow
Nope it wouldnt be a better place...It is human nature to destroy and it will continue to do so with or without a tool that uses an explosive powder..
It's about temptation, accidents and it being easy.

Temptation: Let's say this guy see's his wife in bed with a other guy, if he can get a gun he might shoot him, if he doesn't then he might attack him, difference will be life and dead.

Accidents: No more little kids playing with guns etc.

Easy: It's easy to fire a gun, but it's not that easy to do it a other way, again let's take the first example, shooting the guy is easy, nothing he could do, attacking him might cause the person to get beated up, so there is less chance he would attack.

Sure things will still happen, but will all be less.

LordKwiKSilva00

10-18-2003, 10:02 PM

no offense gohan, but i hafta stick with snow on this...what can i say, i am a supporter of guns(NRA WOOHOO!!!)

thronka, what is ya next build??? gimme some specs, i want to see if it compares to my next build :p :D :D :D btw, i will search for ya support thread(time to do some crapping :D :D :D j/k hehe)

GohanSSJ

10-18-2003, 10:38 PM

Look in the Netherlands only a small percentage has a gun, and trust me alot less happens here then any place in America.

Mntsnow

10-18-2003, 10:43 PM

Your welcome to your views and I'll continue to have mine...And that will include me having guns and they can have my firearms when they pry them out of my cold dead hands and not before then.

jad1097

10-19-2003, 7:38 AM

If I saw a guy in bed with my wife I would not need a gun. I would need a good lawyer. I haven't lost control of myself in years but that is something that may just make me snap.

Guns are not the problem. Sensationalizing violence in our society is a problem.

GohanSSJ

10-19-2003, 9:21 AM

That is indeed the problem, but again if you take away the guns then people will have to do it a other way, most of the results would be then less.

A gun at such times gives you the feeling you have everything under control, they will be with their hands up scared, and that's exactly what such people want, now that person may, or may not shoot, but in both cases it's dangerous, and if that person hadn't had a gun then it would very likely to be different.

It's really easy, the only other purposs of guns except for shooting/killing people is shooting for fun, for that i would say get a air rifle or something.

LordKwiKSilva00

10-19-2003, 11:10 PM

Originally posted by Mntsnow
Your welcome to your views and I'll continue to have mine...And that will include me having guns and they can have my firearms when they pry them out of my cold dead hands and not before then.

well put snow, i like the way you think :)

mholtum

10-20-2003, 12:34 AM

I could kill you just as fast with my car, baseball bat, my bare hands, screwdriver, hammer, axe, pencil, fork, shoelace, hiking boot, well you get my point.

You are entitled to you opion, and I am to mine. You or anyone else will NEVER get my guns while their is still breath in my lungs.

If I found my wife in bed with another man I would kill them both. ;)

Killing a man with or without a gun would be the same for me. As I have done both in my lifetime. If I were to catch you in bed with my wife you would prey I had a gun as it would be a little quicker for you.

Creatures

10-20-2003, 6:59 AM

well a gun stands for killing! a fork doesnt, a screw driver, etc... too
would you eat a piece of cake if it looks like toilet paper? a gun only exists to kill, if you are angry and you see the gun, it's easier to get the idea to kill someone

hope you got my point!

Creatures

GohanSSJ

10-20-2003, 7:34 AM

Originally posted by mholtum
I could kill you just as fast with my car, baseball bat, my bare hands, screwdriver, hammer, axe, pencil, fork, shoelace, hiking boot, well you get my point.
Don't agree, you can't defend yourself against a bullet, you can defend yourself against a baseball bat.

ThRoNkA

10-20-2003, 7:42 AM

I was planning on getting Xeon P4 Dualies or AMD Dual Opterons. Thats how good my system will be :)

Cowboybooter

10-20-2003, 9:16 AM

I have to agree with Gohan on this one!

Hiking boots, baseball bats and shoelaces, albeit lethal weapons, all have another purpose!

What is the other purpose for a Gun? A deterrent ? Don't think so, worldwide stats tend to say different!

Anyone watched ' Bowling for Columbine'?

:)

Bob

mholtum

10-20-2003, 10:38 AM

I can defend against a bullet. Its called kevlar. Seeing a gun and as you put "getting the idea to kill people" is rediculous.

EndobioticChaos

10-20-2003, 12:24 PM

Firearms, orignally, were designed as a more efficient means of gathering certain types of food. To condemn "guns" is precisely the same as condeming "knives" (no more bread and butter for you sir).

Many many firearms are still manufactured for the express purpose of making food gathering easier. So your argument that guns don't have another purpose is completely bogus. If killing other people is the only purpose you can see for guns, that's your problem, and I sure the hell don't want you anywhere near a firearm. However you'll find that for most firearm enthusiasts, that's not at all the primary purpose they see for their guns.

And whether you like it or not, the argument that "guns don't kill people, people kill people" is still the most valid argument for this issue anywhere. Just about anything you can think of can and has been used as a means of killing people. Hands and feet get pretty close to home. It's pretty obvious banning or whining about things that kill people is pointless. What you've got to do is educate people about proper usage of potentially lethal equipment.

Oh yeah, I'm not a firearm enthusiast, and I own exactly zero guns myself. The most I've ever done was kill a rabbit (had a couple of them hiding under the shed, and they kept killing the new trees), which I found distasteful for myself.

GohanSSJ

10-20-2003, 1:17 PM

Originally posted by mholtum
I can defend against a bullet. Its called kevlar. Seeing a gun and as you put "getting the idea to kill people" is rediculous.
1. I never seen a guy making out with someones wife with kevlar on because her husbant might come home. ;)
2. You can still put a bullet in the head.
3. I'm not saying that if you have a gun you want to kill, however if you are really angry because your wife is doing someone else then having a gun available won't help the situation.

LordKwiKSilva00

10-20-2003, 1:27 PM

Originally posted by ThRoNkA
I was planning on getting Xeon P4 Dualies or AMD Dual Opterons. Thats how good my system will be :)

go with the dual opty's, either way u got me beat...i was gonna build a 3500 XP next spring(when the procs hit the market) with almost a terabyte of HDD space, 6 gig of pc3500 OCZ ultra platinum ram, SATA raid, 128mb DDR GF4 Ti4200 with VIVO and DVI and Svid, etc...more specs when i get done with my parts listings :D

mholtum

10-20-2003, 3:15 PM

I understand what you are saying, I just choose to disagree. Say forinstance I were to catch you in bed with my wife. I would be more apt to tear you apart with my bare hards then shoot you.

I was taught by my grandfather to:

1: Never point a gun at anyone unless you tend to shoot them.
2: Never shoot someone unless you tend to kill them.

So never point a gun at someone unless you are going to kill them.

GohanSSJ

10-20-2003, 3:56 PM

You do realise that not everyone is like you.

I would say in the first places killing the 2 people would be plain wrong, yeah what they would be doing would also be wrong, but not worthy of killing.

Now 1 person might be strong enough to kill a other person, and a other not, you need alot of strenght to just kill 2 people, many don't have that, now that's where the difference would be between a gun and not, if there would be no gun then nobody would likely die, otherwise they would.

Some people have enough control to not do anything stupid with a gun, but not everyone is like that, and that's why the world would be better without guns, not because of they who can control themselfs but for those who can't.

Mntsnow

10-20-2003, 4:24 PM

Nope...cause what you propose would make anyone who is "weaker" truely a victim in all events...... Like the quote says.....

"God made man, Samuel Colt made them equal."...

"A gun is just a tool, like an axe or a plow. It's only as good as the man who uses it."......

gjimene2

10-20-2003, 5:06 PM

I like what I saw in a movie once.

This guy cought his best friend in bed with his wife, and shot his wife.

The reason why he shot his wife was because his best friend only tempted her, she's the one that gave into the temptation.

Just like a mouse trap. It temps mice with bait, but you don't see the trap being the one who gets snaped.

GohanSSJ

10-20-2003, 5:49 PM

A gun is a tool that will only bring bad things. Except for shooting as a sport, but like i said you can use air rifles for that.

Siliconjunkie

10-20-2003, 6:36 PM

Originally posted by GohanSSJ
A gun is a tool that will only bring bad things. Except for shooting as a sport, but like i said you can use air rifles for that. Air rifles for sport? In alot of cases the sport is hunting. Unless you are going after squrrels, an air rifle won't do much good.

The one thing I have noticed is that there is a distinct difference between the view of people from the US and those in Europe. There is certainly a sociatal (sp?) difference here. Alot of us in the US were raised around them and accept that people have them and to keep the right to have them we accept some risk that some will do wrong with them. And, apparently it is a risk worth taking for us.

mholtum

10-20-2003, 7:01 PM

If the world out lawed guns, only outlaws would have guns.

I respect your opinions, but disagree with them whole heartedly.

GohanSSJ

10-20-2003, 7:41 PM

Ah but now you raise a different point, i would say the world would be better if there were no guns, as in that guns would never been invented.

@SJ, i personally don't think killing animals for a sport isn't a sport at all.

mholtum

10-20-2003, 8:15 PM

Have you ever been hunting? I for one love to bird hunt, boar, and mountain lion and Competative Shooting..

GohanSSJ

10-20-2003, 8:32 PM

No i never hunted, i never even had a gun in my hands, or have seen someone fire it.

The Netherlands is a whole different country, people don't just own guns.

I would like to try shooting abit though, but not on living animals, or with a real gun.

gjimene2

10-20-2003, 9:20 PM

I don't think that guns are bad. I'm with Mntsnow here, it's who's behind the trigger who may be bad.

As far as killing. If I had to kill someone to save the life of my family or mysself I will.

As for hunting, the best meat you'll ever taste comes fromt he animal you hunted yourself.

Even vegetarians hunts, they just have it easier since it's easy to spot the carrot prey in a carrot patch. Plus they don't move :D

mholtum

10-20-2003, 10:00 PM

Originally posted by GohanSSJ
No i never hunted, i never even had a gun in my hands, or have seen someone fire it.

The Netherlands is a whole different country, people don't just own guns.

I would like to try shooting abit though, but not on living animals, or with a real gun.

For someone that has never owned, held, fired or seen one in action, you sure have strong opinions about them..

To base such strong views on "preceived truths" isn't IMO a good way to go..

smokin

10-20-2003, 10:36 PM

I have strong opinions on all sorts of things I have never done..
what's your point?

mholtum

10-20-2003, 10:52 PM

My point is this, with absolutely nothing to base his opion on, how can you be so against something that isn't immoral or illegal? I don't understand.

smokin

10-20-2003, 11:10 PM

He obviously has statistics to base his opinion on..and strong opinions are not based on what is immoral or illegal 100% of the time...you see..the rest of the world sometimes has a difficult time with the American gun culture...I don't..our borders are too close...but don't be too hard on him..all he needs is a visit to the good ol US of A ..he'll figure it out...
LOL

Siliconjunkie

10-20-2003, 11:19 PM

Its certainly cultural. And, I am sure that there are things they do in the Netherlands that we would consider just as odd as he considers the American view on guns. IMO, this kind of diversity is a good thing. It takes all these views to make the world go round.

I would like to see Gohan go shooting with someone who is safe and responsible about it, to give him an opportunity to base his view on something he has done. If you are ever in Houston I would be glad to take you.

mholtum

10-20-2003, 11:28 PM

I would take him as well.. He could start out shooting an HKMP5K 9mm Auto!

I wasn't meaning to come across "harsh" or hard. I just dont understand how some people can have such strong views on something they have never experianced. Nothing more.

And this statement:

I would like to try shooting abit though, but not on living animals, or with a real gun.

Makes no sense to me. If it is a 9mm, .45ACP or BB Gun it is still a "real" gun.

Siliconjunkie

10-20-2003, 11:35 PM

This wont help matters, but this brings back the memory of the first gun I ever shot.

I was in 5th grade (12ish) and a friend of my dad offered to take us to shoot his 1911. Now for those of you that are not aquainted with this fine firearm, there is a bit of a trick to it. If you hold it with both hands and cross your thumbs behind it, when the slide comes back it will put a couple of nice cuts in your thumb. Needless to say, I did exactly that. It hurt, but it was my dumb fault, not the guns (well, some blame on the owner for not telling/showing me this)

Anywho, enough threadcrapping. Time for sleep.

smokin

10-21-2003, 12:51 AM

I don't think you came across as harsh or hard mholtum..you hold views that are dear to many Amercans. But the reality is..you can have an opinion about something you have never experienced..and the experience may not change your view.

I am a "weird" Canadian in that I own a handgun...why?...I like them. I have friends that are afraid of guns. Putting it in their hands won't change their opinion..

The rest of your post I can't respond to..well I can...
I agree
;)

mholtum

10-21-2003, 12:56 AM

OMG! a Canadian with a gun? What next? Hell freezing over? ;)

Maybe it is just me, but I like to have "first hand experiance" before I form strong opinions about things.

I realize you can have opinions without experiance... I don't live in a cave... LOL

smokin

10-21-2003, 12:59 AM

Psst..
big secret here...
per capita..Canadians have more weapons than Americans....
oops..I wasn't supposed to tell..lol

mholtum

10-21-2003, 1:10 AM

Psst... I have more weapons than some small countries... Including many Full Auto's and other unmentionables....
oops I wasnt supposed to say that either..
:)

LordKwiKSilva00

10-21-2003, 2:01 AM

Psst... I have more weapons than some small countries... Including many Full Auto's and other unmentionables....
oops I wasnt supposed to say that either...

lol mholtum, of course thats where the federal firearms license comes in handy :D :D :D :p lol

GohanSSJ

10-21-2003, 8:08 AM

My oppinion wouldn't change a bit, i can't even see how it could change my oppinion.

The only thing i would shoot on would be like practice targets, i wouldn't be shooting animals.
Well and if i will go shoot practice targets then why not just use a air rifle, sure less realistic, but if that would get rid of all the guns (which ofcourse wouldn't) then i will gladly use it.

As for your real gun part, now you don't just kill with a air rifle, air rifle also have been made for sport, for fun, and not to harm other people.

And remember, i don't have a problem with people that have a gun who can control themselfs, but i have a problem who can't, they are the ones that are dangerous if they have a gun.

@Lordkwiksilva, cleaned up your mess. ;) :p

LordKwiKSilva00

10-21-2003, 9:51 AM

air guns are not only for sport, youo could kill someone with an airgun if you tried...if you hit someone in the right spot, it can kill them..some of these airguns(and most) go between 500 and 700 fps, which is about the same as a .22 caliber rifle/handgun..you hit them in a vital organ or in the temple, it can break the skin and kill them

@gohan: what mess??? looks like you already cleaned it up for me...i couldnt do it, XPC says i dont have admin priveledges ;) :p :D hehe

ThRoNkA

10-21-2003, 12:05 PM

Ok how did a thread about a girl who looks hot turn into a thread of guns? .... I need to think on this.

EndobioticChaos

10-21-2003, 12:10 PM

That's easy Thronka. First came Gohan's post about Mike (Mntsnow) having a shotgun to protect his daughter, then came mholtum's post about Mike's hunter instincts, then came LordKwikSilva's post about wanting to see Mike's gun collection, and the rest is easy. :)

GohanSSJ

10-21-2003, 2:48 PM

Originally posted by LordKwiKSilva00
air guns are not only for sport, youo could kill someone with an airgun if you tried...if you hit someone in the right spot, it can kill them..some of these airguns(and most) go between 500 and 700 fps, which is about the same as a .22 caliber rifle/handgun..you hit them in a vital organ or in the temple, it can break the skin and kill them

@gohan: what mess??? looks like you already cleaned it up for me...i couldnt do it, XPC says i dont have admin priveledges ;) :p :D hehe
You could also kill someone with a pincet. The thing is that a gun is made for killing while a airgun is made for fun.

10-21-2003, 3:10 PM

Maybe it is just me, but I like to have "first hand experiance" before I form strong opinions about things.

I think I have to go with smokin on this one mholtum. For instance, I am not sure you have to bend over and grab your ankles in order to form a strong opinion about whether you like gay sex or not. :D

There are some things that don't require first or even second hand experience. :p Everyone has things they just know about themselves.

GohanSSJ

10-21-2003, 3:51 PM

I was actually going to use the same example RK, but i thought it would not be best if i would say it. ;)

Creatures

10-21-2003, 4:39 PM

that's a good point RK, but what about those who have no chance? if you see your father shooting for fun at some targets, then you think it's OK and you think it's no problem, also if you tell them it's bad, or even the worst thing ever, kids are sometimes strange (as i know =) i never had a gun in my hands, once an air gun, but wasnt that gun, i always see pictures from dieing people when i see guns, guns are here to kill.

Creatures

BTW this was nothing against those who have children and guns at home, it's just my opinion!

10-21-2003, 5:08 PM

I agree with you Creatures. A lot of attitude about guns depends on how you were brought up. I grew up in the woods of Montana and we always had guns around. My mother was on the Montana State pistol team when she was a teenager, and a lot of my family were in law enforcement. We learned how to shoot and gun safety and treated them like tools not toys. And we had a use for them living out in the country. I have hunted but found I liked the stalking part better than the shooting part. Personally I would rather hunt with a camera. But most of my family hunts and venison is really good :)

I own 4 guns, two rifles and one 9mm pistol and a shotgun. I have them for protection and sport shooting. But most of all I own them because I believe an armed populace is necessary to insure democracy. No one could ever take over this country from without or within as long as the people can defend their liberty and freedom.

The problem we have with guns is a matter of education not possession IMHO.

Ohh and Gohan if I think of something that might be not best to say I post it right away :ROF:

GohanSSJ

10-21-2003, 5:47 PM

RK so do i most of the time, but being a mod i believe i should be giving abit of a good example... :p

Cowboybooter

10-21-2003, 6:02 PM

Okay, okay, I continue to read this thread!

It was never my intention to sound offensive, however I have opinions!

1. As a former Royal Marine, I have 'experience' with firearms, in a Life or Death situation you possibly might want me somewhere near a weapon! ( Just not a *****ng SA80 )! :)

2. Gun ownership by the populace proves nothing, Gun Murder in the USA is higher than any other country in the world!

3. I respect the American 'Right to bear Arms' as part of the American culture!

4. I don't know what the answer is, but everyone being armed is not it!

5. The MIB quote of ' You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hands' is sentimental, but arousal, you are likely to be shot by someone who believes you will shoot to kill also!

6. Quoted from earlier, 'Only point a gun at someone if you intend to shoot / kill them'! There it is, a sobering thought, but altrueistic reality!

7. Hunting ? In 2003 ? How's about you take a club and go explore baby seals? Grow up, guys, hunting for food these days is Macho Testosterone talking, nothing to do with reality! 'It tastes better when you killed it yourself' ? Were you the school bully as well?

Okay, I am immensely tired, been awake for 31 hours now ( jetlag ), but my feelings are still true!

;)

Bob

Xaotic

10-21-2003, 6:29 PM

Actually, hunting serves many purposes. Deer for example, will breed to overpopulation in a very short time. This damages crops and endangers the public, especially in traffic incidents. Proper wildlife management also prevents the overpopulation to starvation cycle in many locations. I have many friends that hunt for various animals. Not for trophies, but rather for the meat and in some of the cases adds substantially to their food budget.

mholtum

10-21-2003, 6:45 PM

Bottom line is that Guns have uses other than just brutal killing. If you can't see that you are being short sided and closed minded.

There are numerous gun owners that use their guns for competition shooting and nothing else.

There are numerous guns designed specifically for this.

GohanSSJ

10-21-2003, 7:00 PM

And if i could remove all the guns on the world i would still do that, and i would pass on some air guns to the people who use it as a sport.

Siliconjunkie

10-21-2003, 7:05 PM

Gohan,

What if I were to tell you that there is something out there even more powerful, that is used in more crimes and damages more lives than guns possibly could?

Would you want that banned or taken away as well?

GohanSSJ

10-21-2003, 7:16 PM

Are you talking about women or something? :p

If it has a good site which can't be replaced then no, if it can then yes.

mholtum

10-21-2003, 7:17 PM

Originally posted by GohanSSJ
And if i could remove all the guns on the world i would still do that, and i would pass on some air guns to the people who use it as a sport.

That is rediculous. Makes me glad that, that won't happen here in America.

You are entitled to your opinions and I am entitled to mine.

Your thoughts are typical of those that have never owned a gun or lived in a country where guns are to some a way of life.

Farmers still use guns everyday to protect their livestock. I guess if you were in charge and took his guns away, he could case off wolves, cougers and the like with a big stick or if he is lucky his BB Gun. Untill tou took that away as well.

Mntsnow

10-21-2003, 7:18 PM

Best ban/lockup my hands/body cause with the training I/others have had and continue to get I/others could be used a lethal weapons....Best take away the pencil, pen, sissors, heck the drinking straw at McDonalds as they ALL can be used as a lethal weapon.....They are all just tools....Just as a firearm is just a tool...Heck what about the fingernail clippers in my pocket? What about my car keys?...let alone the CAR...

mholtum

10-21-2003, 7:22 PM

Bowling Ball, Baseball, Hammer, Axe, Q-tip, Golf Club, Baseball bat, my thumb... The list goes on....

Not to mention my Rottweiler... You want to ban all large dogs too?

Or you only want to ban what you don't like?

GohanSSJ

10-21-2003, 7:30 PM

The pencil, scissors, drinking straw, fingernail clippers, car keys and the car have something in common, they weren't designed to kill.

If we take scissors for example, we use it to cut things, very usefull, we use a car to transport ourselfs, what other purposs has the gun except for shooting on targets and kill/injuring?

A gun is not a toy, nor a tool, at least not a tool for normal uses, unless killing is a normal thing.

Sure it can be used for entertaiment, but why can't people use something for that that isn't ment to kill.

You can ignore the numbers but the fact is that more people die from guns then from pencils, pens, scissors etc together.

Anyway the point of a farmer is a fair point, however there are more choices except for killing the animal.

mholtum

10-21-2003, 7:40 PM

Guns when invented were designed for hunting and Self Defense.

BB Guns are not toys.

Mike's point is that many things can kill. A gun is an inatimate objects they only do what they are "told" to do by the person holding said gun.

Yea, chase the animal off so that it will return to kill your livestock at a later time, or even kill you, your kids, your dogs..

A gun is not a toy, nor a tool, at least not a tool for normal uses, unless killing is a normal thing.

What do you consider "normal"? Now you are judging and labeling gun users as abnormal? I find that insulting.

fosin

10-21-2003, 7:46 PM

Originally posted by RK
I am not sure you have to bend over and grab your ankles in order to form a strong opinion about whether you like gay sex or not. :D

and another good reason to own a gun :D. If that guy on deliverance was packing...well...um...he wouldn't have gotten packed.

Good point though. Although, I didn't know I didn't like squash til I tried it. But, I can easily understand why someone doesn't like guns (...or getting their salad tossed ;)), but it's not the same argument as not liking to shoot them (or vise-versa).

I have a few guns and don't do any hunting. If I lived in a country where most the criminals didn't have guns, I would give mine up even though I really like shooting pistols at a range. Ain't gonna happen here though.

On a side note, I locked up and retired my S&W 9mm last year. It was bought the year I was born in 1971. It served about 10 years with a cop (my pops). Luckily it was never used to shoot anyone. It served it's life as an effective crime deterrent. Built to kill, but saved instead :).

gjimene2

10-21-2003, 7:53 PM

People have died at the hands of an air gun. A drunk was shot int he throat not long ago and he died.

As for me being the school bully simply because I said that the meat tastes better when you kill it yourself. I was the one who would beat the snot out of bullies when they picked on smaller people.

Just remember that there is room for every of God's creatures, right next to the mashed potatoes.

I don't believe that hunting is bad as long as nothing from the hunt goes to waste.

GohanSSJ

10-21-2003, 7:55 PM

Originally posted by mholtum
Guns when invented were designed for hunting and Self Defense.

BB Guns are not toys.

Mike's point is that many things can kill. A gun is an inatimate objects they only do what they are "told" to do by the person holding said gun.

Yea, chase the animal off so that it will return to kill your livestock at a later time, or even kill you, your kids, your dogs..

A gun is not a toy, nor a tool, at least not a tool for normal uses, unless killing is a normal thing.

What do you consider "normal"? Now you are judging and labeling gun users as abnormal? I find that insulting.
You take things to personal, like i said guns isn't a problem for those who can control themselfs, but for those who can't. If you feel insulted by that then i'm sorry, but it's a fact.

Chasing away a animal is one thing, stunning them is a other thing, what to do with them? Nothing that you could really do now with them, however if everyone would have this problem then i'm sure people will come up with options.

mholtum

10-21-2003, 7:58 PM

They have come up with answers. Animals that harrass and kill livestock are destroyed.

GohanSSJ

10-21-2003, 8:00 PM

Killing is not the solution, it will never be the solution.

Siliconjunkie

10-21-2003, 8:02 PM

Originally posted by GohanSSJ
Are you talking about women or something? :p

If it has a good site which can't be replaced then no, if it can then yes. Computers.......

Just as you feel that killing isnt an answer, neither is banning of anything.

GohanSSJ

10-21-2003, 8:10 PM

Well computers might be used to rob money etc, but let's face it, what's worse, a person who lost money, or a person who is bleeding on the ground with a bullet in his head?

And i wouldn't say guns would be the answer, but it would safe more lifes.

Btw be honest, how hard is it to get a gun in America? And does anything gets really done against people who aren't allowed to have 1?

mholtum

10-21-2003, 8:11 PM

Originally posted by GohanSSJ
Killing is not the solution, it will never be the solution.

Imagine this,, you are a farmer and you or your wife or purhaps your 3 yr old daughter gets attacked by a wolf. You going to kill the animal or just try to chase it off?

mholtum

10-21-2003, 8:12 PM

GohanSSJ

10-21-2003, 8:21 PM

Getting a gun in the Netherlands is extremely hard.
Originally posted by mholtum
Imagine this,, you are a farmer and you or your wife or purhaps your 3 yr old daughter gets attacked by a wolf. You going to kill the animal or just try to chase it off?
Again i didn't say chase off, you said that, i said stun it. Or if you still want to kill it then use a stun pistol and then give it something that will kill it in a more civil way, you know the way how people kill their dogs when they are ill or something.

mholtum

10-21-2003, 8:33 PM

I think I am going to agree to disagree with you.. This is going nowhere fast. Have a nice day.

Siliconjunkie

10-21-2003, 8:38 PM

Originally posted by GohanSSJ
Well computers might be used to rob money etc, but let's face it, what's worse, a person who lost money, or a person who is bleeding on the ground with a bullet in his head?

And i wouldn't say guns would be the answer, but it would safe more lifes.

Btw be honest, how hard is it to get a gun in America? And does anything gets really done against people who aren't allowed to have 1?

I wouldnt say it is hard. I can walk into a number of stores within a few miles of my house and walk out with a gun. There is a bunch of paperwork to do and they have to call in to check your background to make sure they do not know of any reason to not sell you one. And I like it that way.

My point on the computers is that your view is a)closed minded and b)ignorant. I am sure there are those that feel they should be banned for the reasons I stated. While you are entitled to your views, you have to expect resistance when you want to impose your view on someone elses life. If you live here and choose not to have guns, great, more power to you. But, making statements like you have in this thread, saying that you have no interest in being educated about them but wish to ban them is foolish. Perhaps these kinds of decisions are how things are done in the Netherlands, I honestly don't know. But here, banning something you know nothing about nor want to learn anything about is not a wise thing to do.

GohanSSJ

10-21-2003, 9:00 PM

Well the fact is that much less people get murdered here then anywhere in America. To many idiots walk around with guns in America, and those are the people who change my oppinion.

10-21-2003, 9:03 PM

I think the last line in this article about says it all :rolleyes:
Netherlands gun control success (http://qsi.cc/blog/archives/000144.html)

mholtum

10-21-2003, 9:03 PM

People are Murdered without being shot more than those that are shot.. Again, uneducated referance...

mholtum

10-21-2003, 9:05 PM

Does lower criminal gun ownership translate to lower crime rates overall? Looking at the FBI data in table 1 on page 64, the violent crime rate in the US was 504.4 per 100,000 inhabitants, while property crime ran at 3656.1 per 100,000 inhabitants. The Dutch Central Bureau for Statistics has crime numbers online, but not the crime rate. The table shows 101,143 violent crimes and 919,262 property crimes in 2001. With a population of 16,171,520 (September 2002), this works out as 625.4 violent crimes per 100,000 people and 5684.4 proprety crimes. Or, to put it differently, the violent crime rate in the Netherlands in 24% higher than in the US, and the property crime rate is 55% higher.

More guns, less crime. What a surprise.

LOL ~ Now I understand where you are coming from..

Again ~ You need to educate yourself on issues before entering a debate unarmed, if you will..

GohanSSJ

10-21-2003, 9:29 PM

I don't care much about crimes, you see you can replace money, but you can't replace lifes. Remember that.

mholtum

10-21-2003, 9:37 PM

LOL ~ Dude you have problems.. What do you think Murder is? A crime. You were argueing killing people vs guns. There are more Violent crimes in your gunless counrty than there are in the US. Murder is a violent crime.

mholtum

10-21-2003, 9:40 PM

I just realized you are 18 (corrected) years old.. That explains quite abit. Still explains quite abit

Siliconjunkie

10-21-2003, 10:01 PM

August 25, 1985 makes him 18, just over actually.

Siliconjunkie

10-21-2003, 10:04 PM

Just to settle this once and for all.....

Gohan (amongst others) is in favor of gun contol/banning

mholtum (amongst other) is not in favor of this

we can debate this till we are blue in the face and WE WON'T AGREE. Sofar things have been friendly and I would like it to stay that way. So, lets all just agree to disagree.

GohanSSJ

10-21-2003, 10:15 PM

My age has nothing to do with my views on this. I also think it's pretty low to take my age into this
In any case in 20 years i will still have the same oppinion on this, i know oppinions change, but i refuse to have such items, i'm not planning to kill anyone, i'm also not planning to be killed.
Originally posted by mholtum
LOL ~ Dude you have problems.. What do you think Murder is? A crime. You were argueing killing people vs guns. There are more Violent crimes in your gunless counrty than there are in the US. Murder is a violent crime.
Murder is a crime, but a crime isn't murder

When 10 13 year olds boys steal from a store, then those are 10 crimes, you can't compare it to murder though.

And what are violent crimes, it's not stated on that site, and untill we know that then there isn't much to talk about, because this wasn't about crimes but about guns.

Siliconjunkie

10-21-2003, 10:22 PM

I think where he was coming from was the idea that guns cause crime.

He is saying that guns acutally prevent crime. Primarily by being a deterrant. Teh 10 13 year olds are less likely to try to rob a store/house if they think the person there may have a gun.

mholtum

10-21-2003, 10:23 PM

Well, I am about done with this... You continue your views and I will mine.

Statistically, I am safer than in my country than you are in yours. Whether or not it is contributed to gun ownership or not I will sleep better knowing that I do own guns and if confronted by another gun owner I can protect myself. Which I have had to do before BTW.

GohanSSJ

10-21-2003, 10:34 PM

And that's where even you can't disagree.
What would be safer, the both of you without a gun, or the both of you with a gun? You do realise that 1 bullet could take you down.
Originally posted by Siliconjunkie
Teh 10 13 year olds are less likely to try to rob a store/house if they think the person there may have a gun.
Maybe so, but what do you rather read, 10 boys stole candy from a store, or 1 boy stole candy from a store and his now bullets in his body?

I rather see bankrobbers get the bank emptied and run away without getting caught, then seeing them get killed while trying.

You can't replace death, you never will, and when a person who lost it all abit get killed by trying to steal something then i think that's sad.

Sometime ago a homeless woman got killed while trying to get away with a beer bottle, mind you that she was actually killed by the people working for that company who kicked her to death... very saddening. In any case so she stole a beer bottle, do such people really need to be shot/killed?
I don't believe they do.

mholtum

10-21-2003, 10:40 PM

Here is food for thought. You ban all guns all you are in fact doing is unarming law abiding citizens. Criminals will still get guns, somehow.

So it would be both of us with a gun, or him with a gun and me being shot.

Siliconjunkie

10-21-2003, 10:41 PM

I rather see bankrobbers get the bank emptied and run away without getting caught, then seeing them get killed while trying.
Personally I have no problem with them getting killed while doing this. No loss as far as I am concerned. And, here at least the law backs me up on this. In Texas I have the right to shoot someone at night to prevent the concequences of theft, and I like to have that right. Does that mean I would immediately shoot someone at night? Certainly not. Would I shoot someone coming thru my front door in the middle of the night? You betcha. It will certainly make someone think twice before deciding to break into anyones house here. If this right did not exist they could break in with little to no fear that anyone could stop them from raping my cattle or whatever they choose. I for one am willing to accept the risks that come with this.

Now, on the other hand I do have some similar views to yours. Gun owners should be held responsable for their guns. If a child gets one and shoots themself or someone else, the owner should be tried just as if they were holding that gun.

My biggest fear as a gun owner is that they will be stolen or similar and used in a crime. I take many steps to prevent this and think that other gun owners should as well.

10-21-2003, 11:43 PM

Sometime ago a homeless woman got killed while trying to get away with a beer bottle, mind you that she was actually killed by the people working for that company who kicked her to death... very saddening. In any case so she stole a beer bottle, do such people really need to be shot/killed?
Personally I would rather be shot than kicked to death. On the other hand if she had a gun she could have capped their asses and gotten some more bottles. :D

j/k :p

Creatures

10-22-2003, 6:43 AM

Originally posted by mholtum
Guns when invented were designed for hunting and Self Defense. .

that was a good joke :)

self defense? against what? other people with guns that just defense themselves? or people that attack with pointed sticks that were designed to defense? the human nature is to attack and show that i'm the best, guns just help us :)

someone said something about taking over a country and you have to protect yourself against them, who the hell should attack america with infantery? chile? mexico? brazil? i hope you see there is no country that is crazy enough to attack your country with infantery :) or are guns here to shoot the missiles flying over you head?

guns have just one purpose, to kill. our country hasnt got many weapons, but we have to go to the army for 6 months we have to learn how to shoot we can take our guns with us after these months, but no one does! you know why? because we dont need them, we dont have to protect our country (you too) we dont have to protect our children with guns that might kill them (you too) we dont need them to shoot targets and show how good we are (you too) we always see that guns are here to kill, killing people, as in iraq as in every other country in this world. your soldiers die in iraq die becuase of guns (and bush =) j/k ) ok if there wouldnt be guns they would use nuclear power and that would be worse, but that's a different thing....

do you understand why i dont like guns? no
do i understand why you like guns? no
but please try to understand why, becuase i think i know why a lot of american (also canadien or every other nationality) love guns but it wouldnt fit in here if i start to explain =)

Creatures

BTW wasnt this thread about brit? and how good looking she is? :D

ThRoNkA

10-22-2003, 7:34 AM

New Name: "Gun Xtreme Forums"

EndobioticChaos

10-22-2003, 7:37 AM

Gohan, I think we know what you want. You wish there were NO guns, in other words, that guns had never been invented. That's nice. It's also naive, and only a few hundred years too late. Guns have been invented, they are here, and there's no way you'll ever "unmake" them.

Given that, it puts things into perspective. It's true that if you ban guns, you're just taking them away from law-abiding citizens. The criminals already obtain their guns illegally; that certainly wouldn't change with stricter gun laws.

Think about some of the freedoms you have that you personally value the most, then think about how strongly you would fight against having them taken away. That's precisely what you're suggesting for others, when you want guns banned.

There's a reason there's a piece in the Constitution about Americans having the freedom to own guns. One of the big ones was as a last resort fail-safe in the case that the government would go totally corrupt, thus the citizens still would have some means of protecting themselves.

And if you want to talk about things that were designed for the express purpose of killing humans, there's so many other things far more significant than guns. Take a-bombs for instance. Right from their first inception, they were designed to kill, and kill humans specifically (unlike guns), and I daresay in their short history have already taken nearly as many lives as guns. And do so far more thoroughly and effectively, and along with it do very extensive and long-lasting property damage. Why don't you get on a soapbox about banning those?

EndobioticChaos

10-22-2003, 7:42 AM

Thronka, "subtle" sarcastic attacks don't become you. Try something you're good at.

ThRoNkA

10-22-2003, 7:55 AM

I was being funny. I don't attack anything. EVER.

Creatures

10-22-2003, 8:17 AM

wasnt TNT produced for save mining?
because Nitroglyzerin was pretty hard to transport =)

and wasnt that nobel? who created the nobel awards because he found out TNT was used to kill people?

Creatures

GohanSSJ

10-22-2003, 8:28 AM

Originally posted by mholtum
Here is food for thought. You ban all guns all you are in fact doing is unarming law abiding citizens. Criminals will still get guns, somehow.

So it would be both of us with a gun, or him with a gun and me being shot.
I was talking about all guns gone, like they never excisted, sure won't and can't happen, but that doesn't mean i don't wish that there were no guns.

They do more bad then good.Does that mean I would immediately shoot someone at night? Certainly not. Would I shoot someone coming thru my front door in the middle of the night? You betcha. It will certainly make someone think twice before deciding to break into anyones house here.
How are they going to think twice when they are dead?

ThRoNkA

10-22-2003, 8:36 AM

How are they going to think twice when they are dead?

exactly! I was just thinking about that.

mholtum

10-22-2003, 9:03 AM

Originally posted by Creatures
that was a good joke :)

self defense? against what? other people with guns that just defense themselves? or people that attack with pointed sticks that were designed to defense? the human nature is to attack and show that i'm the best, guns just help us :)

someone said something about taking over a country and you have to protect yourself against them, who the hell should attack america with infantery? chile? mexico? brazil? i hope you see there is no country that is crazy enough to attack your country with infantery :) or are guns here to shoot the missiles flying over you head?

guns have just one purpose, to kill. our country hasnt got many weapons, but we have to go to the army for 6 months we have to learn how to shoot we can take our guns with us after these months, but no one does! you know why? because we dont need them, we dont have to protect our country (you too) we dont have to protect our children with guns that might kill them (you too) we dont need them to shoot targets and show how good we are (you too) we always see that guns are here to kill, killing people, as in iraq as in every other country in this world. your soldiers die in iraq die becuase of guns (and bush =) j/k ) ok if there wouldnt be guns they would use nuclear power and that would be worse, but that's a different thing....

do you understand why i dont like guns? no
do i understand why you like guns? no
but please try to understand why, becuase i think i know why a lot of american (also canadien or every other nationality) love guns but it wouldnt fit in here if i start to explain =)

Creatures

BTW wasnt this thread about brit? and how good looking she is? :D

Now you are just being stupid.

Yes Self defense against say bears, and wild animlals..
When guns were designed:

Who is going to attack America with Infantry well remember the Civil War and the war of independance? INFANTRY.

I am done with this thread, you people are just being stupid now.

mholtum

10-22-2003, 9:13 AM

Originally posted by GohanSSJ
I was talking about all guns gone, like they never excisted, sure won't and can't happen, but that doesn't mean i don't wish that there were no guns.

They do more bad then good.
How are they going to think twice when they are dead?

It said think twice BEFORE breaking in.

EndobioticChaos

10-22-2003, 9:43 AM

I'm amazed at how some people can hold out against seeing the realistic side of things.

There's one simple fact that people need to realize: no object is ever wrong in and of itself.

Just about every object you can think of can and has been used for both extreme good and extreme evil. What is "bad" and "wrong" is how people use the object. No matter how great the potential for bad use in any object, it is very rare that simply banning it solves the problem. Internal restraint is always more effective than external restraint. Believe me, I know. I come from a very conservative Anabaptist background. The particular denominations I'm associated with have tried banning more different things than you can imagine, and yet it seems to push them ever farther from what they're trying to accomplish. That's because banning "things" is always focusing on the secondary goal. But there's a simple "law" that shows why that can't work: "Focus on the main goal, and secondary goals will happen as a byproduct; focus on the secondary goals and you'll reach none."

So go ahead. Ban guns in your fantasy world if you like. But realize that to be consistent with such rubbish in the real world, you'll have to ban literally everything, including life itself.

GohanSSJ

10-22-2003, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by mholtum
It said think twice BEFORE breaking in.
But people don't, people will start thinking after something happened, so if you point a gun at them, call the police and all then they probably won't do it again.

You do realise that people that do this think they can get away with it, it's after they have been caught that they know they won't always get away with it, and that it can be fatal 1 day.

Siliconjunkie

10-22-2003, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by GohanSSJ
But people don't, people will start thinking after something happened, so if you point a gun at them, call the police and all then they probably won't do it again.

You do realise that people that do this think they can get away with it, it's after they have been caught that they know they won't always get away with it, and that it can be fatal 1 day. Darwin in action. If they don't have the good sense to NOT break into someones house in the first place, all we are doing is cleaning out the shallow end of the gene pool.

GohanSSJ

10-22-2003, 10:56 AM

Is it? Is everyone person that breaks into a person house scum? Shouldn't they have a second chance and all?

I'm not saying they are in their rights, and ofcourse you should be allowed to defend yourself, but for example try not to kill them, what those people do is a crime, but it's not such a terrible crime, and many of those people will later get a normal job, have a normal family and have a normal life, if they get the chance ofcourse.

By all means if that person wouldn't surrender right away then shoot them in their leg or something, but don't aim right away at vital places, give those people another chance, show that you are better then them.

mholtum

10-22-2003, 11:03 AM

Look I am not going to debate your "issues" they are uneducated and quite frankly the more you post on this subject more you post on this subject the more you prove you know nothing about what you are talking about. That or you are just naive.

I had a armed man break into my house and take a shot at my wife. He missed, I didnt I put two in his chest. Do you really think that I should have let that dirt bag live? If so you have more problems than I thought.

If I shoot someone that has broken into my house in the leg he will sue me. In this world today he would probably win.

I say kill tha *******.

GohanSSJ

10-22-2003, 11:13 AM

It depends ofcourse on the situation, yes i would of killed him too.

If the other person points a gun at you then it's simple, but there are more theifs who won't point a gun at you then there are that will.

If a person comes in your house and hasn't got a gun in his hand then don't shoot right away, if they try something then it's a different story.

Mntsnow

10-22-2003, 11:16 AM

Is everyone person that breaks into a person house scum? Shouldn't they have a second chance and all?
YES they are scum...To break into my home and try and take something that is mine that I have worked long and hard to get/provide for my family or myself is wrong....I dont break into someone's home....I earn and pay for what I have!

NO....Come into my home surreptitiously (uninvited and or by stealth) and you'll/they most likely wind up sorry for doing so.... In my home , in my personal kingdom etc... for a criminal there is no second chances....a second chance only gives them a "second chance" to harm someone I care about.. I feel like I've already given them a chance...I have warning sign and alarm signs...Thus if they still gain entrance to my home they are there for one thing in my eyes....to harm...Thus they will be dealt with in a manner necessary to prevent any harm to my family or myself! I would rather be judged by 12 than have someone I love carried by 6 !!!

mholtum

10-22-2003, 11:16 AM

If you shoot an unarmed man you go to prison...

Mntsnow

10-22-2003, 11:22 AM

Not always.....It depends on the situation....This is why I am an advocate for a trained and informed armed society.

Siliconjunkie

10-22-2003, 11:28 AM

In Texas, at night it does not matter if they are armed or not. There was a thread on TIMO about this a while back. Got as far as quoting laws. I will have to go dig it up.

Centurion

10-22-2003, 11:51 AM

boy this went places - suffice to say this - you don't live in my neck of the woods. I live on 76 acres - nearest nieghbour 1.5 kilometers - other side 2 km.

Friday night at midnight - we had a bunch of 4 wheelers roll into our door yard and run circles around the house and leave.

Now this is behavior of thieves - I did track these 2 down - and got a name out of one of them.

relayed info to the RCMP - our rural police.

these bozo's come back as the pair that they have been trying to tie to a bunch of B&ET' all over the area. And they steal firearms.

I am trained unarmed and armed - In Canada - we are not allowed to use deadly force.

Our crime stats show it too - home invasions up - property crime up - assaults up.

My experience leads me to my beliefs - this is from 43 years of experience.

I was 16 when I picked up a rifle and learned to shoot targets, 18 and I picked up a .44 mag revolver. Legally.

Cheers - I don't post my views to force one way or the other - these are my views and experiences.

Centurion

GohanSSJ

10-22-2003, 12:31 PM

Originally posted by mholtum
If you shoot an unarmed man you go to prison...
Yet another law that they messed up.

I'm a peacefull person, and i won't kill someone unless i have no choice.

mholtum

10-22-2003, 1:50 PM

Originally posted by GohanSSJ
Yet another law that they messed up.

I'm a peacefull person, and i won't kill someone unless i have no choice. See we do have something in common. ;)

Cowboybooter

10-22-2003, 3:55 PM

Some strong views going down here!

Interestingly, the UK banned handguns in a knee jerk reaction to a shooting, I think even the Olympic Shooting Team was lost along the way! The result, of course, is that the criminal element still has guns, but nobody else does.

I have no idea what the answer to gun crime is!

Leaping back to the original topic, yes that's a fine looking young lady you have, Mntsnow, you must be very proud!

:)

Bob

GohanSSJ

10-22-2003, 6:39 PM

I think a stun pistol against humans would be nice, a pistol that will shoot something that will get in the body with a needle or something and then totally stuns the person and that the person will stay like that for sometime, like a hour+.

akaBruno

10-22-2003, 7:58 PM

I don't know how this thread turned into one on Gun Control.

One of my best freinds is a collector of Colt 45's. He aint no bank robbin terrorist. But, he's scared to death, that someday the government will come and rob him of his collection.

While our laws are making it harder and harder for collectors to purchase guns. It's becoming easier and easier for criminals to get a gun. Therein lies the problem.

Where do you draw the line and how can we solve the problem of cheap guns hitting the streets. I think that most of the blame lies w/ the manufacturers flooding the market w/ cheap disposable handguns.

fosin

10-22-2003, 9:29 PM

Originally posted by GohanSSJ
I think a stun pistol against humans would be nice, a pistol that will shoot something that will get in the body with a needle or something and then totally stuns the person and that the person will stay like that for sometime, like a hour+.

That pretty much describes my crossbow :D

(the stun wouldn't last a hour though :))

GohanSSJ

10-22-2003, 10:15 PM

I know something we can all agree on.

There are to many idiots on this planet that have to ruin the lifes of others.

@fosin, a crossbows, now that's a different story, i would really like to try 1 of those for fun.

Mntsnow

10-22-2003, 11:08 PM

Truthfully what they need to do just enforce the laws already in place.... heck if they need to buy island someplace to put all the problem people then do it....Start enforcing stiffer sentences for criminal acts... make it NOT worth the risk....

gjimene2

10-22-2003, 11:10 PM

The British did that to their inmates Mntsnow. Their target was Australia.

EndobioticChaos

10-23-2003, 10:42 AM

gjimene, that island was just simply too big. Find a smaller island and we'll be okay. :lol:

mholtum

10-23-2003, 11:05 AM

If it were up to me, those that chose to commit a crime with a gun, would be executed. Criminals would learn very fast that using a firearm to commit a crime would cost them their lives.

Of course this would NEVER happen in America, there are way to many people out there looking out for the rights of criminals and completely forgeting those of the victim..

ThRoNkA

10-23-2003, 11:19 AM

I wanna get voted off :P

LordKwiKSilva00

10-24-2003, 12:45 AM

Btw be honest, how hard is it to get a gun in America? And does anything gets really done against people who aren't allowed to have 1

gohan, legally it is hard to get a gun in the US anymore...you must be 18 to purchase, register, and own a rifle or shotgun, and when you purchase it, they must do a stack of paperwork, check your background, and you must wait 3 days for the background check to clear before taking the firearm home.

to purchase a handgun you must be 18, although from what i have heard you can legally own one when you are 18 but it CANNOT be registered to anyone under 21(you may own it but someone 21 or older in your family must register it in their name)

one exception to this handgun rule is an airgun..you must be 16 to buy a handgun that is air powered(only for the airsoft guns, the ones that shot 6mm plastic BB's at 200 fps, or 6mm paintballs at 150 fps) and 18 to buy the air rifles and handguns(the ones that shoot copper or steel BB's)

i forgot to mention for a normal handgun(9mm, .45 cal, etc) you must go through an even longer waiting period, and also more paperwork

LordKwiKSilva00

10-24-2003, 12:54 AM

Originally posted by GohanSSJ
Yet another law that they messed up.

I'm a peacefull person, and i won't kill someone unless i have no choice.

not to be rude or anything, but you have just contradicted yourself..earlier in the thread you said something about killing is immoral and you woud never kill(not exact words mind you)...

Originally posted by GohanSSJ
I think a stun pistol against humans would be nice, a pistol that will shoot something that will get in the body with a needle or something and then totally stuns the person and that the person will stay like that for sometime, like a hour+.

they have already started making non-lethal ammunition for handguns that will hit the person(s) and disitegrate into a powder, not killing them, but incapacitating them..it comes in all diferent sizes(9mm, .45 cal, .38 cal, etc)..the military is currently testing it last that i have heard...it is mainly for use to replace rubber bullets for use in riots

10-24-2003, 1:41 AM

the military is currently testing it last that i have heard...it is mainly for use to replace rubber bullets for use in riots

I think they are also testing them for air marshal use. They need something that won't blow a hole in an airplane but will still stop a hijacker.

Siliconjunkie

10-24-2003, 7:01 AM

Originally posted by LordKwiKSilva00
gohan, legally it is hard to get a gun in the US anymore...you must be 18 to purchase, register, and own a rifle or shotgun, and when you purchase it, they must do a stack of paperwork, check your background, and you must wait 3 days for the background check to clear before taking the firearm home.

to purchase a handgun you must be 18, although from what i have heard you can legally own one when you are 18 but it CANNOT be registered to anyone under 21(you may own it but someone 21 or older in your family must register it in their name)

one exception to this handgun rule is an airgun..you must be 16 to buy a handgun that is air powered(only for the airsoft guns, the ones that shot 6mm plastic BB's at 200 fps, or 6mm paintballs at 150 fps) and 18 to buy the air rifles and handguns(the ones that shoot copper or steel BB's)

i forgot to mention for a normal handgun(9mm, .45 cal, etc) you must go through an even longer waiting period, and also more paperwork Sorry, but you are all wrong on almost all of this. Perhaps PA has some extra laws. But what you are describing is NOT US law.

Rifles/Shotguns- 18 to purchase, no registration/license. 1 page form to fill out. They will call the ATF and do a background check on the spot. No waiting period.

Pistols- 21 to purchase, no registration/license. Same 1 page form to fill out. No waiting period if they can get the background check done on the spot.

The portion of the Brady Bill requiring waiting is no longer active. It was for 5 (?) years to give them time to get a quicker background check in place.

LordKwiKSilva00

10-24-2003, 3:12 PM

i think PA does have extra laws...i was gonna buy a .223 last nite but the guy said i would have to do an hour wrth of paper work then wait for 3 days so i decided not to get it

Siliconjunkie

10-24-2003, 4:03 PM

Must be it. I bought a .270 about a month ago and it took about 15 min and I walked out with it. You should goto WV. No wait there. Bought my shotgun there last year.

10-24-2003, 5:41 PM

I wanna get voted off :P

Sorry Thronka you have to stick it out. :) Its the price you pay for starting these kinds of controversial threads. :D

GohanSSJ

10-25-2003, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by LordKwiKSilva00
not to be rude or anything, but you have just contradicted yourself..earlier in the thread you said something about killing is immoral and you woud never kill(not exact words mind you)...
Not really, i wouldn't kill someone if i don't have to, but if i have to choose between my own life or someone else his life then he is going down.

In such a situation you only have 1 option, so it's pretty simply to choose then.