Nvidia nightmare

[Amanda]

Hi,

I have a Nvidia G-force 3 titanium 500 graphics card and my operating system is windows XP home edition...

i've had my card for over a year now and everything has worked really well while i'm gaming or surfing the net till i downloaded the new drivers off the Nvidia site version 45.23 just 3 days ago...

right after i uninstalled the previous drivers and installed the new ones my desk top had these vertical lines going across... when i clicked to start to enter a program my computer froze up and displayed a recovered from serious error message...

heres what microsoft says in the error report

"Error Caused by Graphics Device Driver

Thank you for submitting an error report to Windows Online Crash Analysis. Unfortunately, we cannot provide you with specific information about how to resolve this problem at this time. The information that you and other users submit will be used to investigate this problem.

Analysis

A device driver installed on your system caused the problem, but we cannot determine the precise cause.

Getting Help

Depending on which situation is applicable to you, do one of the following:

If you are running Windows Server 2003 you may experience crashes if you have adjusted the Hardware Acceleration setting. Microsoft recommends that the Hardware Acceleration setting be set to None for server systems. To check your Hardware Acceleration setting, go to the advanced section of the display properties dialog box.
If you know the manufacturer of the device, contact the manufacturer's product support service for assistance.
If you don't know the driver's manufacturer and need help diagnosing and resolving this problem, contact your computer manufacturer's product support service.
Updated drivers might be available on the Microsoft Windows Update Web site. At Windows Update, you can have your computer scanned and, if there are updated drivers available, Windows Update will offer a selection of drivers that you might be able to use. To learn more about updated drivers that might be available, visit Microsoft Windows Update.
For information about Microsoft support options, visit Microsoft Product Support Services.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Additional Technical Information

Error Message: STOP 0x000000EA THREAD_STUCK_IN_DEVICE_DRIVER (Q293078)


i've got 12 more exactly like that... i finally got the card disabled and removed the drivers which solved my problem... except now when i reinstalled the drivers off my installation disc it does the same thing... i tried 4 different driver versions and its always the same thing...i haven't been able to use my G force card at all...

Can any of you help a girl out? one more thing... no matter how many times i delete nv4_disp.dll version 45.23 out of my drivers folder it keeps reappearing right after i delete it...i have removed every other Nvidia driver but i can't seem to get rid of this one...


please help me... :)

[NDC]

Welcome to XPC! :)



Sounds like you still have driver components remaining from the 45.23 driver. There are utilities you can use to completely remove those files..

Give this utility a shot.:

http://www.3dchipset.com/utilities/nvidia/removal/detrip.php

and thos one too:

http://www.3dchipset.com/utilities/nvidia/removal/nvcleaner.php




If both utilities fail to work, try doing it manually:

BE SURE TO BACK UP YOUR REGISTRY (http://www.xtremepccentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2680) BEFORE ATTEMPTING THE METHOD BELOW!



1. Go to RUN and type REGEDIT

2. Select and highlight the COMPUTER ICON at the top of the tree.


3. Press CTRL+F and type NVIDIA.

4. Delete keys in the registry it finds related to Nvidia Video drivers

[Amanda]

Thanks for your helpful advice... i followed your instructions and removed all the remaining drivers but no matter what i do these 2 files keep coming back...

nv4_mini.sys

nv4_disp.dll

no matter how many times i delete them they return... i am able to use my G force 3 titanium 500 card without it crashing my computer but the graphics are all screwed up...so it has to be those 2 drivers... but i don't know what else to do to remove them i don't know alot about computers i'm just 16...but when you delete something how does it instantly return?

can you give me more helpful advice? thanxx

[NDC]

The reason for the files returning is because they are in a "backup" fire directory called "dllcache". Backup DLL files are stored in this directory incase the original DLL file(s) become corrupted. Do the following and rename the two extensions to BAK or any name other than DLL and then delete the files you are trying todelete...


1. Go to My Computer

2. Go to Tools and then Folder Options which is located at the top of the window.

3. Click on the View tab.

4. Uncheck Hide Protected Operating System Files (recommended

5. Click ok

6. Locate the two files and rename them to nv4_mini.bak and nv4_disp.dll

7. Reverse the steps to hide the dllcache directory again.

[Amanda]

Thanks again NDC... you've really helped me... i followed your instructions and changed the extentions on the Nvidia drivers in the dll cache directory... that worked getting those last 2 Nvidia drivers off my computer...

I looked through everything and couldn't find anything else belonging to Nvidia... so i installed the latest drivers from the Nvidia site version 45.23 and as soon as i installed them and restart my computer it does the same thing it did before...

It has vertical lines through the desk top and it makes it nearly impossibile to read anything... then after 3 minutes it freezes up and i have to start in safe mode to disable the G-force 3 Ti 500...

It says the card is working properly... and i can't find the drivers conflicting with anything... do you think its my card?

[NDC]

1. Have you tried using a different version driver?

2. Have you tried setting the refresh rate to default 60hz?

[Amanda]

I'll try that now NDC... but something new has developed... i have my G-force 3 disabled and its started doing this with the vertical lines... so now i'm worried its not the G-force 3 drivers at all ...it looks like the matrix

[NDC]

What do you mean you have the G-Force 3 disabled? Are you saying that you're running the display adapter in VGA mode? Accoring to what I see on the screen, I could say that could be due to a bad driver. Don't lose hope yet. That doesn't necessarily mean the card or monitor is bad...

[Amanda]

Yes... i have the G-force 3 card disabled... but when you say running in VGA mode what does that mean and how can i tell?

[NDC]

When you don't have any driver loaded for a video adapter and Windows doesn't have a driver to load for it, it will load the standard windows native driver which will be at 640x480 @ 16 colors or sometimes even 4 colors. Don't disable the card, just re-enable it and try doing the two things I mentioned above..

[NDC]

Go to the link below and download the 21.83. After downloading the driver, uninstall all drivers as you did before and install the 21.83...

http://www.3dchipset.com/drivers/official/nvidia/nt5/index_2.php

[NDC]

Oh, and one more thing... If that fails to work, also try reinstalling DirectX.



Download this redistribution version which is the full file, not the express setup file...

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=A6DEE0DB-DCCE-43EA-87BB-7C7E1FD1EAA2&displaylang=en

[Amanda]

I just cleared the drivers and installed the 21.83 version and as soon as it restarted and went to my desk top the vertical lines appeared and it crashed my computer... i haven't tried re installing direct x before... do i need to uninstall the current version before installing it again?

[NDC]

No, you can install the DX9.0b over the existing DX.

Would you happen to have another system you could test the monitor and video card?

If the above method doesn't work and you don't have any other systems to test your video card and monitor in, I would strongley suggest inserting the Windows XP CD and booting from it to see if your monitor displays correctly. This way, it will be booting from video drivers on the CD that are not and could not be corrupted. If you're still getting the same result, I think you could narrow down the problem to your hardware. It could perhaps be your video card, monitor, and at the worst your monitor.

[Amanda]

I know this probably sounds stupid... but when i put the XP disc in and tryed to boot from it ...it gave me the option of repair or installation... so i wanted to ask you what i should do about that? And another thing i just rememebered that happened the night all this started happening was that my "media control device" could no longer find its drivers ... so i did a system restore and it fixed the problem... i've tried system restore for this problem but it doesn't help... i don't know if it makes much difference but i bought my monitor brand new just 3 months ago... i wished i did have a spare computer to test the card and monitor on... but i'm sorry... i don't...

**sighs** the last 3 days have totally sucked... i haven't played one computer game... i've spent hours going through deleting rogue Nvidia files and drivers... i've downloaded every version driver they have and i still get the same vertical lines then 3 minutes later it crashes my computer... the only way i can use my computer is to disable the G-force 3 ti 500 card...


i've made 17 error reports to microsoft when my computer crashes because of this and they all say its a graphics driver...

[NDC]

Well, when you saw the screen with the option to repair or new install, was the screen garbled like the way it was? If not, it looks like you have your answer. The monitor or display adapter is NOT the source of the problem. It is driver issue. Try doing a Quick Recovery, not from Recovery from Console. If this fails to work, do a new install. Personally, when things get as messy as your situation, doing a fresh install of Windows will do you better in the long run. Make sure you have all the application setup disks or CDs ready. If you do a fresh install, all applications will needto be reinstalled to be functional again. The reason for this is because the registry will be flushed when you do a fresh install.

[Amanda]

Well, when you saw the screen with the option to repair or new install, was the screen garbled like the way it was? If not, it looks like you have your answer. The monitor or display adapter is NOT the source of the problem. It is driver issue. No... it wasn't garbled at all... Try doing a Quick Recovery, not from Recovery from Console. If this fails to work, do a new install. Personally, when things get as messy as your situation, doing a fresh install of Windows will do you better in the long run. Make sure you have all the application setup disks or CDs ready. If you do a fresh install, all applications will needto be reinstalled to be functional again. The reason for this is because the registry will be flushed when you do a fresh install.


Will a fresh install erase my hard drives? I have 2 harddrives and about 100GBs of stuff on them... I can save them to DVD if they need to be erased

[NDC]

No, they will not be erased. Just your Windows directories will be overwritten. Just be sure to keep existing file system and NOT select FORMAT.

[NDC]

And just one more thing. For future reference, may suggest something?

Don't put saved data in the same partition as your Windows and Windows applications. If your using your hard disk as one whole disk, I would like to recommend partitioning it. When you have a Windows crash while a system file is being accessed, your likeliness of corrupting saved data becomes higher since your saved data is among Windows system files and vice versa. Isolating data from eachother just gives me more assurance. And when time for format comes, you don't have to site there and copy files to a different hard disk ir partition just to get a full format done. I recommend full formats vs. quick formats unless your certain your hard disk doesn't have any bad sectors. Full format will detect and bad sectors and mark it as bad during the format (kinda like scan surface used in DOS days). As for quikc formats, they will only record disk data and leave the disk untouched.

Here is how mine is setup so that I don't have to worry about my saved data other than situations where my whole hard disk dies..

Read these links if you have the time...


http://www.xtremepccentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28&highlight=partition

http://www.xtremepccentral.com/gallery//showphoto.php?photo=546&password=&sort=1&cat=3011&page=1

[blackwatch]

Originally posted by NDC
And just one more thing. For future reference, may suggest something?

Don't put saved data in the same partition as your Windows and Windows applications.


yes very true!!!

[Amanda]

NDC... i posted you a question on partition's

http://www.xtremepccentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28

I'm going to do a fresh install of windows XP now... everyone keep your fingers crossed that i do this right :)

[Amanda]

well... i'm sick of computers and i feel like killing mine with a bat..
I was following NDC's instructions on the fresh install of windows XP till it said it would replace all my settings...applications and documents... i got scared that it was about to erase all my images and poetry so i went with the repair...

now i get this error message and i can't use system restore or safe mode... it seems like every time i try something i only make things worse...

i hate saving everything i have to CDs because its going to take forever... i have 100GB of things i've saved since i started highschool... so i guess its gonna take over 100 CDs to save it all... **sighs**

[NDC]

Don't get too iscouraged. At least you know what the problem is... I just got over a MAJOR problem which lasted me for about 3~4 months where my system would reboot without any error logs or error messages. I did countless Windows reinstalls and wasted countles hours staying up a pratically all night. Just got the problems resolved a few days ago... trust me, I know the frustration you must be going through. It sucks. But hey, you will get this fixed...

Here is the reason why and what you should do to to clear he problem....

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=330159

[Amanda]

Originally posted by NDC
Don't get too iscouraged. At least you know what the problem is... I just got over a MAJOR problem which lasted me for about 3~4 months where my system would reboot without any error logs or error messages. I did countless Windows reinstalls and wasted countles hours staying up a pratically all night. Just got the problems resolved a few days ago... trust me, I know the frustration you must be going through. It sucks. But hey, you will get this fixed...

Here is the reason why and what you should do to to clear he problem....

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=330159



Thanks for the encouragement NDC... too bad about the problems you were having... i can't imagine what you went through with it lasting 4 months... i'm going crazy and its only day 5... but i'm happy knowing you straightened it out... what did the problem turn out to be?

I was able to disable the Nvidia G force 3 Ti 500 before it crashed out my computer... which is really hard now that system restore and safe modes no longer work because of the error i posted you about in the above post... i read the error report you gave me the link too... I find it interesting that Nvidia drivers are causing it... I'm starting to feel Nvidia's drivers are really a malicious virus destroying my system... they are everywhere on my computer when i unhide protected operating system files and do a search...

nv4_mini.sys

nv4_disp.dll

these 2 files are found in

C:/WINDOWS/SYSTEM32
C:/WINDOWS/INF
C:/WINDOWS/SYSTEM32/DRIVERS
C:/WINDOWS/ServicePackFiles/j386
C:/WINDOWS/Driver Cache/j386/sp1.cab
C:/WINDOWS/ServicePackFiles/j386/sp1.cab

should i delete them?

[NDC]

It was a problem not many people would've figured out. I have a backup hard disk where I just keep unplugged and have just the IDE connector connected. This is the way I've had it on many systems in the past and I do this with many hard disks such as my 30GB ghost image disk, 20GB software backup disks, Mp3 backup disk, etc. I keep it unplugged so it doesn't wear my backup drive (hoping to lengthen the life of the drive), and also so it cannot get corrupted or infected by a virus. Anyways, it appears that having the IDE cable connected without the power interfering the IDE channel. I know this is the problem because I can recreate this problem by connecting just the IDE cable. It just blew me away because I've neber seen anything like this. I'm just accepting the fact that this board doesn't like it maybe? Now I ust keep the IDE and power cable disconnected and all is good.



As for your question... Yes, you can safely delete all of them since you will be reinstalling new drivers anyways. And I know what you mean about Nvidia drivers getting flakey at times. Trust me, there are many people out there who get ugly blue screens in their faces after installing new drivers. And yes, this happens even when they use WHQL drivers, not beta. You just got to find the one that works best for you. Personally, I've been having good luck with the following drivers 22.50, 23.12, and now the new release. I would've just stuck with 23.12 but TI-4200 isn't one of the devices supported by thus driver version since this card was not available at the time.

[Amanda]

NDC... i'm giving up... i'm exhausted from all the effort we've put into fixing it and i'm still getting no where...

i deleted all my Nvidia files off and did another repair to Windows XP ...and all these Nvidia files come right back... right now i can't use my G force 3 Ti 500 or it crashes my computer...i can't use system restore or safe mode with out error messages...

so i'm keeping my G force 3 uninstalled till i save up enough for all the blank CDs i need to save my images and poetry then i'm erasing everything...

[blackwatch]

here is another option amanda...do you have a spare hard disk in the house...like in a parents computer...or do you have a friends computer that you can borrow the hard disk?

take the spare hard disk and plug it into the chain, as if it were a slave to your corrupted drive. Use windows to transfer the data from from one hard disk to the good one.

unplug the drive.
reinstall, then wipe clean. once windows is up then plug the hard drive in...transfer all your files over, erase them from the back up drive.

its actually easier than it sounds and will do the job. trick is finding a spare drive that can hold that amount of information for the time being.

[NDC]

Yeah, I'm with blackwatch. But as I told you, you can do a fresh install without losing saved data. It's just that your applications will not be functional as explained above. As for backing up the registry and restoring after the fresh install will make your applications functional again as long as you didn't install them within Windows directory or Program Files directory, but I wouldn't recomend it. The registry is what causes most of the problems so....

[jeremyrooks]

Originally posted by Amanda
well... i'm sick of computers and i feel like killing mine with a bat..
I was following NDC's instructions on the fresh install of windows XP till it said it would replace all my settings...applications and documents... i got scared that it was about to erase all my images and poetry so i went with the repair...

now i get this error message and i can't use system restore or safe mode... it seems like every time i try something i only make things worse...


Here i go again...

Go ahead and take a bat to that virus infected computer then go to your local Apple store or visit the online store and pick you up a computer that never crashes, doesn't require drivers for whatever you want to plug in, and never has to have the harddrive formated and the os reinstalled. I have been using my powerbook since June 1, 02 (yeah I'm a recent switcher) and the only time i have to restart is when I install updates to the OS, not 5 times a day everyday. "It doesn't crash. It doesn't freeze. It just works." So when you do finally get fed up with taking apart you machine and putting it back together on a daily basis rather than spending time actually doing productive work, get to the Apple store and buy you a Mac.

Like I said before, I was a huge Windows supporter. I was brainwashed. I then went to work at an office where there are a total of 3 windoze machines out of a total of around 200 machines. The first week I was there I bashed the other technology guy because he liked Macs. He just kept saying, "just wait until you try one for a couple of days and you will change your mind." We'll about a week after I started there my computer came in. A month after that, I sold all 3 of my windoze machines I had. It is just so relaxing knowing that everyday you can carry your powerbook to work knowing that you are going to spend your day doing something productive rather than installing drivers, getting rid of a virus, or installing patch after patch hoping and praying that they wont crash your system and cause you to lose it all. There are so many advantages of owning a Mac and there is no way i could list them all on a single page. Just get to your local apple vendor and check them out. Trust me, you will be glad you did.

Sorry for the long post, but I just had to get it out there.

[Mntsnow]

jeremyrooks

let me tell you this....We dont go bashing Linux, we dont go bashing MS and we dont go bashing Mac here.....

If you don't have a postor reply that relates to the problem at hand then I suggest you dont post/reply.

If posts such as this continue I will be forced to show you the door and suggest that you go hang out at some other site that allows disruptive posting...I DO NOT and WILL NOT allow it here.

If you or anyone have questions concerning this type of posting you are encouraged to PM or Email me and I will be happy to answer your questions.

[NDC]

Well, from seeing Amanda's post, she seems to enjoy playing games. Something MAC just isn't very strong in. Both MACs and PCs have their ups and downs. I would recommend a MAC to anyone who does graphics, A/V or plain internet browsing. I'm afraid MAC is pretty much in the same boat as Linux. The OS is nice and does all the general tasks, just not very strong in the area of software/hardware availablility. As mentioned above, it all depends on how you use your computer. Personally, I found also found MAC to be more stable as well. Perfectly stable? Not a chance! I do graphics and perhaps should be using a MAC as my primary system. However, I use a Dual MP2000+ based system. The reason for this is because I don't want to purchase a system for one purpose and not have the wide range of software/hardware availability that PCs have. At work, the whole story changes. I don't need to have fun at work and install various software. All I need is one area of software so a MAC is perfect for the task.


I can go on and on about this, but this thread is here to help a member get their CURRENT system up and running, not lead them in the way to buy a new system...

[jeremyrooks]

I know this is off of the subject and perhaps I should start another post but I think I will just say it here for now. Mac myths run wild everywhere I guess. Have you recently tried using a Mac to perform the everyday tasks since OS X was released. I agree that the systems before OS 9 were graphics only systems. In fact, if OS 9 was all that Apple had to offer, I would probably not be supporter. OS 9 was a slow Appletalk based os with not much to offer. It didn't fit well into current windoze/linux networks. But with the release of the unix based OS X, it does everything that can be done on a PC plus so much more. And it does it in a streamline manner. Currently, I work for a education cooperative and we have two technology people taking care of 13 school districts. The things that I do with my mac can not be done on a pc. Just for one example there is way to set up different 'locations.' By that I mean set up a location with the name of one of our schools, set up the ip addresses on both the hardwire ethernet as well as an airport card and modem if needed. Then I can switch between these locations without having to restart. The only thing that comes remotely close to this on a windows machine that I know of is setting up "hardware profiles" and restarting to allow you to pick the right one. But who wants to restart all of the time. As for games, I have yet to find a game that doesn't run better on my powerbook than any pc i have owned. Like I said in the beginning, there are several myths about macs that just won't die. Myths such as "they are only good for graphics" are words of people who have been brainwahsed by M$. Let me know if you find something you think I can do from my Mac.

As for hardware, I'm not sure what your getting at when you say, "just not very strong in the area of software/hardware availablility." If you are talking about things like motherboards or processors, of course they make you buy their stuff. This is what makes their hardware stable where a windoze machine crashes so much. But they do support 3rd party vendors for nearly everything else like memory, video cards, hard drives, cd drives, etc. As for software, who cares if there are 1000 times the software for the pc when the 10 programs you want most are on the mac only? Besides that, I can run nearly every program that you run on windoze through Virtual PC (which is now bundled with the pro version of office x). Macs might not be perfectly stable but what is? I would say that not a single crash in more than a year is stable enough though. Especially when you are used to reinstalling windoze every other month to get rid of that blue screen.

[NDC]

Yes, perhaps you should start another thread...:)

My only question to you is... So are you saying that MAC has the same hardware and software availability as PC platform?

[blackwatch]

Originally posted by jeremyrooks
Here i go again...

Go ahead and take a bat to that virus infected computer then go to your local Apple store or visit the online store and pick you up a computer that never crashes, doesn't require drivers for whatever you want to plug in, and never has to have the harddrive formated and the os reinstalled.

im just perpetuating the off-topic thing here...but ive never had those types of issues...more than maybe 3 or 4 times since 1997...i figure 3 or 4 issues in 6 years aint bad.

sorry...back to your problem amanda

[jeremyrooks]

Originally posted by NDC
My only question to you is... So are you saying that MAC has the same hardware and software availability as PC platform?

I'm saying that you cannot do anything on a windoze machine that i can not do much easier and faster on a Mac. I am not saying that there are the same hardware availiabilities. What I am saying is that Apple does allow you to install 3rd party hardware into their boxes.

[NDC]

Oh, ok... Thanks for your reply. jeremy! :)

A a matter of fact, I wouldn't mind having a G5... I don't game, install all these freebies/shareware downloaded programs and buying all this hardware. I agree with you that MACs are more stable and don't need tweak as you would with windows to get certain software working right. I mostly do Graphics (And yes, MACs rip in Photoshop regadless of how fast PC chips have gotten), browse the internet, check my mail, etc,,,

Still, I disagree with you on "Macs being able to do everything on a PC but easier". Sure you can, just not using the software everyone else is using. And no, you don't have the massive gaming software either. And let's not forget utilities like "Spybot, The Cleaner, and other useful utilities"

Anyways, what matters is preference. And we both seem to differ which is what makes these forums so interesting... :)

[jeremyrooks]

Originally posted by NDC
Anyways, what matters is preference. And we both seem to differ which is what makes these forums so interesting... :)

I agree.

Also, we got a G5 on the way for doing the video editing around the office at work. I will let you what i think (i am pretty good at that you know, see above) =)

[NDC]

Yes, please do... thanks! :)


http://www.xtremepccentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6399

[grover]

The Mac/PC thing has annoyed me so much so I have to reply. I have had over 20 years of commercial software development experience on everything from VMS systems to Macs, to Novell servers to SunOS to IRIX SGI Onyx's and the PC world. Some of the comments people have posted here are plain silly and misleading. The problem is, that because people use something on one system they assume (most often wrongly) that such a thing cant be done on another system, or infact.. it cant be done as fast.. or as pretty.. this is all quite untrue.

For instance we see an explanation of how Macs are far superior to PC's apparently because of locations. But alas, if the person writing this new how to use Network Neighbourhood, theyd find how simple its really is to do.. without a restart... On Win2K you can modify most Internet properties including IP info without a restart.. pretty kool huh.. Even IRIX Remote Toolchest (no its not a virtual desktop its a network relationship) can do what you say, which happens to be also avalable on Linux, and SunOS.. Dont be too sure Macs are the only one with anything. Remember its BSD underneath, and as network utilities go, nearly every tool on the Mac has a cousin in Linux or Free BSD.

As for Mac and its amazing 3D hardware. Well thats a bit of a stretch isnt it. Bit like saying the Onyx3 I use has the best 3D hardware in the world, it really all depends on the software thats using it. Ie you run something like Vega on an Onyx3.. and you can only use very old graphical abilities.. much like the mac.. if you run older OS9 software and go to classic mode.. the 3D hardware really doesnt mean much.. its all about the availablility of the software for the hardware. Which on Mac is still paultry compared to PC. PC utterly dominates the 3D market.. thats why even SGI are moving their hardware to a more PC centric system (4 ATI 9800s in one box anyone?). My point is pretty simple in 3D.. PC is the domintating market, and hence will ultimately always have the bleeding edge tech.. because it has the bleeding edge software for it.. On the Mac, there is no good 3D API anymore.. OpenGL WAS good.. extensions and Microsoft ruined it.. now DirectX sadly has surpassed it in every way... but I digress.

Now you mention that because the Mac has the 10 best pieces of software around, thats the way to go.. this may be the case for a company doing just a very specific thing. But in my line of work, I have yet to meet a person that has a role purely on one application. In fact we are trained to be able to use a multitude of applications. Also, I am a very big believer in 'looking around' before you choose the software you buy. For quite a few companies I have helped them save alot of money in them choosing open source or free software that can replace full commercial products.. yessir.. this is the case.. sadly people get told whats the best and most of the time.. people believe what they are told and use the suggest software. In my experience we have been able to replace tools like photoshop with the Gimp!!! The artisits were initially quite unhappy, but after using some of the scripting capabilties they were hooked.. Its not everyones cup of tea.. but if you dont try it.. how can you be sure..

Another example.. Microsoft Office.. yes its on the Mac.. woohoo.. but I recently helped a manager realise its not so great even on PC.. he had spent a day preparing an article for a presentation, and Office somehow corrupted the file. He was pretty much in a panic. I said to try using OpenOffice to see if that would open the corrupt file.. shazzam.. no problems.. but after he had played with OpenOffice for a short while he came back and said that he really liked it.. and loved how it could save pdf.. and so on.. if you dont try it you'll never know...

My golden rule to finish orf. There is NO SUCH THING AS THE BEST OR WORST PLATFORM. In 10 years time there may not even be any Macs or PCs around.. we might all be using the Zonix 1200..

What important is to be flexible and always be ready to take on new tools and apps, there is an amazing amount of utterly excellent free software out there, get into it, dont be blinded by the marketing hype..

the hardware wont save you when it becomes obselete...

[jeremyrooks]

Have you used a Mac in the last 3 years. There is nothing that compares with Quartz graphics in the PC world. Nothing. I am not sure of the others because I sadly admit that I have only used WinTRASH, some Red Hat, and Mac. I think that Red Hat is awesome too. I am a firm believer in OpenSource software and try to find it every chance I get.

As for the locations feature, can you create a list of locations and simply pick the school/business you are out without having to remember what the IP scheme is and without having to install third party software or without having to reboot with a different hardware profile? I don't believe so. I use nearly 15 different apps everyday and probably a total of around 40 or 50 different apps every month. The day that OpenOffice finds it way to OS X will probably be the day I move from my FREE AppleWorks to OpenOffice.

I also agree to be diverse. However, with all of the bugs, viruses, and other trash that comes with Windoze, there is no way that it should have 95% of the market. The release buggy software and they openly admit it. I just wish more people knew what else was out there.

I would just like to see more flavors of *nix running more of the market as opposed to wintrash.

jeremyrooks

[Lt.Col.Claymore]

not me like Windows Xp more Better Interface then MAC an LINUX
i had once a MAC pc and i finf it suck and i fi whant to use it for game there arent that many games that Support MAC every tryed
to play Doom 95 om MAC is Failes big time with me
and Windows 98 SE whas very good at its time

Greez Lt.Col.Claymore

[EndobioticChaos]

AAAAAAHHHHH!!! What is WRONG with you guys?????

This is NOT a Mac Vs. PC thread!!!! If you want to argue such rubbish, PLEASE DO IT SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!

Hopefully someone will delete all these threadcrap posts, including mine!

[GohanSSJ]

This topic finished over 2 months ago, and continueing a topic about something that was offtopic in the first place is pretty pointless.

Please use the topic where NDC linked to, or make a new one on the subject.

Btw i won't delete posts unless it's purely spam, if Mntsnow or NDC feels it should be deleted they can do so.