Computer running hot

[diveram]

when I run the cow, the number crunching thingy, my temp jumps right up. Its 70f here in my apt. in Newport, RI. It will be getting hotter in here. I do have ac to help when its real warm. Is this normal or do you think I need a extra case fan to help. And how accurate is the monitor? I have a msi board and use their monitor. pc alert III.

[NDC]

Well, for one thing, it's normal that your processor temp rises when running the cow. If you look in your peformance monitor (task manager), you will notice that your CPU load is at %100 when the systems is idling.

As for your temperature question,

1. What processor are you running?

2. How hot is your CPU running when it's at its highest temp?

[diveram]

I am running 2 Intel 2.4 gig Xeon's

the temps are 75c for cpu1 and 70c for cpu2 - the Intel web site says their good for 70c.

[Xaotic]

Shut it down. At those temps, it probably has throttled back on performance as well. Recheck the HSF application and renew the TIM. If you are on controlled fan headers, consider changing to ful time fan headers. I have only had time to get as far as BIOS in mine yet, but I have idle temps at 31 and 28c respectively. After I get it loaded, I'll get some full load readings for you.

[diveram]

Xaotic,
What speed fans are you running? I took the stock fans out because of noise, and replaced them with ball bearing stealth fans. I bet they run slower. I'll have to check that out. When I shut the cow down the temps drop to 50c 48c, but still not as low as yours. I'll keep you posted.

[Mntsnow]

What heatsinks are you running Brian? How many case fans are in your tower and what placements are you using? (assuming you are still using the case you showed in the benchmarking forum)

[NDC]

Are you running facotry heatsink/fan? That seems awfully high... :(

[diveram]

I am using the factory heatsinks, they are pretty big. I have one case fan in the rear, and one on the side blowing on the viedo card. The power supply has one blowing out too (of course) Same Case! I think what I need to do is put the stock fans back in and see what happens. I really think thats it. (slow fans, no wonder they are quiet!)

I will post to let all know!

I have to work till 10:30pm tonight, so I won't post till tomorrow with the results. Thanks all for the replies.

[Xaotic]

I'm running aftermarket heatsinks from Dynatron:

http://www.dynatron-corp.com/products/cpucooler/cpucooler_model.asp?id=50

I like the skived copper HS and noise is moderate from the 70mm fans at about 4550RPM, but bearable. Eventually, I may duct and go back to larger diameter fans, probably a long way off.

BTW, current temps are open side, with the 2 PS and HS fans and no additional fans running. I should be able to get OS temps and load temps this weekend.

[diveram]

Ok I put the stock fan in at 12:30am friday night. Just got in from work too. The stealth fans run at 2700 rpm plus and minus a little. The stock fan runs at 5700 rpm +- a bit. What a difference. I only put one in to see what happens. I run the cow and it stays around 62c With no cow it is around 48c. Even after 1/2 hr of running the cow, not above 63c. I must need faster fans. I can't take the noise out of the stock ones. I may invest in what Xaotic has. Thanks all, I will let you all know what happens this weekend! Good night!

[diveram]

I added 3 80mm case fans. I put 2 3000rpm in the rear, and one in the front ( a little slower ) I took the stock 5500 rpm 60mm fan out and put the slower stealth fan back in. My apt is 72f in here (2f warmer than when I had a prob) I have been running the cow for about 45mins now and no prob. I am running at 62c tops. This makes me happy, but its going to be warmer in here in the summer so I must keep an eye on it. Believe it or not it is still quieter than the stock fans. Thanks all for your input!

[ThRoNkA]

62 is still awfully high for comfort. Have you tried a new HSF with a high quality thermal grease?

[diveram]

Still to high? its only that high when the cpu's run at 100% for a while. No I have not tried that yet, I really think its all in the fans, but I may be wrong too. Intel provides fans that run at 5500+rpm and heatsinks, why should I need to change them? I am using 1/2 that speed. I just don't want the noise. I may invest in what Xaotic is using once he posts his results. I also don't know how accurate the readings are, any one know? Can I really trust those readings? Any way....I'm still new to this kinda thing and learning a whole lot! Thanks again, I really cannot thank you all enough!

[ThRoNkA]

Thermaltake makes a HSF combo for the Pentium 4's but I am not sure of the model number or specs. Those have temp controlled fans. I am using one and running at 4500 RPM and keeping it at 40c under load and have only 2 case fans. I would look at the Volcano series by Thermal Take. Very high quality fans. I know the Volcano 8 has a speed control box so I think you could use that when under load like playing games, crunching numbers and then turn i down when you are going out to eat to keep the CPU Cool. I think you get the picture.

If you need some ideas on price, let me know. I have a Volcano 7 and would like to help in every way possible.

Edit: Here is a rough estimate on how to read Celcius readings.
Think of 35 celcius about 100 degrees. every 1 degree celcius up it goes, add 3 degrees farenheight (High school spelling never paid off lol) to the 100 degrees. On average your processor is running at 160.68 degrees farenheight. (or 161 rounded).

[Xaotic]

I have to agree with ThRoNkA on the temperatures. It's too warm for comfort. Even thought the chips are rated for 70C, I'm much more comfortable with them running about 50C. It'll be later today till I get load data, got the RAID configuration done last night. Unfortunately, while the Volcano series is pretty good, it's not designed with Xeons in mind. The Dynatrons were a good compromise for me. They were about 26.00 each and cheaper than some of the high end alternatives.

I can't recommend the place I got them from. They did eventually resolve the problem with the initial shipment missing the rentention clips, but it took 4 days for them to ship the first package out(3 day UPS). Naturally, I recieved that package and got only 1 set of clips. More phone calls and they tried to ship the remaining clips 3 Day again. Two weeks waiting for the last parts for this system. The Dynatrons can be ordered directly, though I haven't tried yet.

[diveram]

Ok I did a Brian test. I am very mechanical and have worked in a body shop for ten years before a career change to dive shop owner operator. Lots of times fixing a hard crash I needed to walk away for a sec to gain a new look. ( I'm just painting a pic for you all on how I think....go figure!...lol...) So instead of trusting the pc's temp.....I took the side panel off the box and (careful not to spark with static) touched the heatsink. If 35c is about 100f, and the pc says I am running at 62c than I would have burnt my finger. ( I realize the main heat is close to the cpu, but get a pc of metal hot for a while and the whole thing gets hot) The heatsink was warm but not HOT. I really find that hard to believe! I really trust all of you here at xtremepccentral, lots of great people sharing a common hobby. You really cant buy the kinda advice that comes out of here! I think I am really missing something or is it poss. that sensors are giving bad readings? I have a box that runs an amd 1700xp with a msi board. It says (with the cow running, cpu at 100%) cpu temp never gets over 55c and sys at 31-33c. I keep that box running 24/7 too with no case fan. Whay such a huge diff. My dually now has 3 case fans and sys temp reads (with no cow) 35c.

OK I'm stumped....My next Idea is thermal grease. Like ThRoNkA pointed out. I used the intel stuff supplied with the hsf combo. I really cant see a heatsink change making such a difference due to contact area stay the same.

[Mntsnow]

as long as the thermal grease is applied correctly and you are infact getting good heatsink to cpu contact I would have to say your board is giving you incorrect readings. (or the application is misconfigured and thus giving wrong readings) btw which application are you using?

[diveram]

By application you must mean what is giving me the temps right? The answer is pc alert III put out by msi. There is no way that I can see to config it! I really am wondering about that contact! The grease was applied and hs is real tight on there. The grease was applied correct I think. I only have done that a few times. I do realise a thin coat is right, If I put too much on, would that increase the temps?

[Mntsnow]

ok I would lean towards a bad contact between your heatsinks and cpu's since you are using the motherboard manufacturers own program

[diveram]

There is a great pc shop up the road here, I plan on getting some grease and re setting the heatsink today. I think that is the best place to start too, Mntsnow. I'll keep you all posted :)

Thanks all

Brian

[Xaotic]

Also, check the temps in PC Health in BIOS. It should be nearly the same as the load temp, if you shut down and go into BIOS immediately.

Where you touch the HS will make a huge difference on temperature. If it's warm at the top, likely to be very hot near the interface.

As far as thermal interface media goes, I'd strongly recommend the Arctic Silver 3. Be careful with any TIM, too much is as bad as not enough.

[diveram]

Thanks Xaotic, I am going right now to the store. Its funny I didn't think to check the bios temps...to compare. I am getting bumed out about this temp thing. If I get this right, a thin coat covering the contact area is correct, right? I can use any suggestion on applying the tim......Well off to the store I go!

I'll be back!

[Mntsnow]

If I put too much on, would that increase the temps?
Yes. To much will cause a thermal barrier thus actually insulating the cpu from the heat-reducing properties of the heatsink

Just like many things in life...A little is good for you but to much is bad ;)

[diveram]

Ok, I got Artic Silver 3, and went to web site for directions. I'll be back to let you all know what went one here!

[ThRoNkA]

Please let us kn ow how the new thermal grease worked. I am curious to see how far your temps went down.

[diveram]

Well......I am a bit mad.......The cpu 1 is running like 3-5c cooler on average....cpu2 is 10c hotter under load. Cpu1 is much better under load, like 57-59c, at 100% cpu load. I made cpu2 worse :(.....I guess I have to invest in new heatsinks.....I really don't get it! Well I guess I understand why folks don't use stok heatsinks. I can't believe I made cpu2 worse, I even took it apart again, recleaned and reapplied grease and heatsink and still no better!....uuugggggggg! ( Back to the drawing board!) :)

[ThRoNkA]

That is good one CPU 1. But CPU 2 might have had too much thermal grease applied. I see you tried again and it didn't help. This is the reason I USE HIGH RPM HSF Combos instead of Stock ones and the quiet series one. Makes NO SENSE to use a low rpm fan on a high performance CPU. Make sure you get one with at lease 4500 RPMs and the biggest CFM rating you can get. Allows the air to flow much faster and cool better. ThermalTake, Dynatron, CoolerMaster and AOC (Alpha Omega Computer) seem to make the better kinds of HSF's IMO.

Just out of curiousity, how did you clean the processor when you cleaned it up to reapply the thermal grease? I have never cleaned the processor die area at all, so I was wanting to clean up my processor and start like new :)

[diveram]

I went to the web site of http://www.arcticsilver.com and followed the directions. I used 99%aolcohol very carful with a rag and q-tips. It is poss that I have too much on cpu2, I am kinda new to this I only built 3 systems. I guess it figuers that my best one gives me a problem. I just had it for today, then took the wife to eat, I think I am going to take it apart tomorrow and remove some grease......Then see what happens.....Whish me luck!

Thanks all, Brian

[Mntsnow]

It's a fine line between just the right amount and to much! I bet you have to much on there

[diveram]

Problem solved!!!!
The heatsink for cpu2 was not making full contact. Check out the attached pic. The second thing I did was change the 60mm fans to 80mm fans with this neat adaptor I found at a local computer store. Boy this drive me nuts, kept me awake thinking about it too. I am real greatful for the help and advice you all gave me. I may still invest in new heatsinks (better quality ones).

[Mntsnow]

Whoohoo on getting it figured out!

[Xaotic]

Glad to hear it. Finally posting from mine now. Not fully configured yet though. I have 2 instances of Toast running now, confgured one for each CPU. It's been running 15 minutes now and I've got temps of 37 and 43C.

[diveram]

Xaotic, I am running 45 and 47c under normal load, when I run the cow they run at 57 and 61c after 45mins 100% cpu load. I do feel a bit better now, however I would like to get my temps down a bit like yours. I guess the heatsinks really do make a big difference. What OS are you running on yours? Did you build it to use as a server? Other than a temp issue (only under load) I haven't had a prob. Very stable system.

[Xaotic]

Still seems to high for my taste. My temps were after 15min at 100% on each processor and medium speed fan settings(about 3000RPM on the 70mm). I'm running W2K Pro SP3 without HT enabled, would need to change over to Server or XP for HT enabled. Thankfully, it's to be my primary workstation for home. I have 3 lower rated duals for server use.

Looking at the pattern on the HS, it looks like one side is making contact prior to the other side and wedging the TIM out of the way. Try reapplying the TIM and when reinstallng the HS place it down as close to flat as possible. Also, when tensioning the HS, since it uses screws, tighten progressively on both sides, sort of like tightening a head gasket. If you had tightened one side first, the other side might not contact and give that pattern as well.

[LordKwiKSilva00]

if it does run that high, try downloading a few programs, like cpuidle and MBM (motherboard monitor, a plugin for cpuidle) this helps cool your cpu during idle time by shutting it down...try going to www.voodoofiles.com and searching for both these progs...when i ran my AMD tbird with these, i dropped from like 45c during idle time to something like 30c...hope this helps out for ya, and if anyone sees any probs with my reasoning, feel free to correct me

[diveram]

Thanks LordKwikSilva!

[LordKwiKSilva00]

np...anytime

[koji]

hey how do you disconnect the retention clips they seem almost impossible to remove :(

[diveram]

ya, they are a pain in the butt, be very carefull, cuz they are close to some parts on the board. Look at them close and you should figure them out.