Wanna build a duallie

[Biff]

I have finally decided to take the plunge & build a duallie.
Now I’m thinking on a dual AMD, only problem is, I know nothing about em…LOL.
All my Pc experience has been Intel.

The 1800 seems to be priced with the biggest bang for your buck! As I understand it the MP series is for MSP, but folks are using the lesser priced XP in duallies by jumping a bridge right? Is this hard to do?

I don’t want to have a machine that sounds like a vacuum running, my monster Alpha cooler on my P3 was too loud, what do you guys use for cooling? As I understand it AMD’s run hot.

I’m gonna need a case, is full tower the only way to go? And a power supply, I read posts in the past that AMD needed a compatible unit and what wattage?

What is this about registered or unregistered ram? Does that matter? I’m going to enquire about the price of getting a board repaired or replaced, if that is economically viable I’ll be trying the Asus A7M266-D

I would appreciate any insight members can give
Biff

[fshanda]

Have fun building it, I know I had a lot of fun.

I have a couple of MSI K7Master-L's and I have nothing bad to say about them. They setup as easy as any single processor system i've built and have been running rock solid for more than a month now. I used the Thermatake Volcano 7 hsf's. The 80mm fans run pretty quiet untill they kick up for extra cooling when needed. I have used Volcano 6cu+'s before and they were screamers. The Volcano7's are a lot quieter. I was running the boards with 300watt powersupplies at first. Just generic no names that suprised me and ran quite well. I have since switched to 420watt AMD approved psu's. I got tired of worrying about dammaging the boards. I also run 1800XPs. I was lucky with mine, they were old and thankfully MP unlocked. I will be trying to unlock the next ones since the 2 I have for the next board are locked. The MSIs board size is not that big. Same as my EPOX 8KHA+ and would easily fit in a mid tower case. A little larger case with some well positioned intake and exhaust fans wouldnt hurt. Those 2 processors do put out some heat. I have mine mounted in a custom, home built rack. All open with plenty of air flow.

I forgot about the ram. The first 2 slots on the MSI can be unregistered plain jane DDR. As soon as you step into the 3rd and 4th slots all of the ram must be registered ECC. A few of the newer boards and some of the of the older ones are being manufactured to allow this.

I just read all of the available reviews of all of the boards I was looking at to make my decision. I had a lot of the same questions when I decided to go with an AMD dualie. Posting here at XPC is a step in the right direction. There are a bunch of die hard dualie fans here :)

[NDC]

The 1800 seems to be priced with the biggest bang for your buck!

And that's the fact, Jack! ;)


As I understand it the MP series is for MSP, but folks are using the lesser priced XP in duallies by jumping a bridge right? Is this hard to do?

If you tried soldering, it could be VERY difficult. However, if you use a conductive pen, it's should be as easy as putting string in a needle eye... And considering the price difference between the MP and XP where the only difference is the L5 Bridge, I would go for the XP...


I don’t want to have a machine that sounds like a vacuum running, my monster Alpha cooler on my P3 was too loud, what do you guys use for cooling?

You would be just fine using the factory heatsink/fan that comes with the XP processors which are very quiet. Or you can go with a copper heatsink that usually have 4700rpm fans (http://www.globalwinusa.com/products/cakii68.html). The Delta fans which spin at 7000rpm are not only MUCH louder, but the difference in temperature is about 3C which isn't worth the noise if you ask me... I would put a 120mm blow hole at the top of the case and install the 120mm fan on a reostat to control the speed. Keep the speed down for the those cool and cold Canadian weathers and crank it up for the hot days! ;)

As I understand it AMD’s run hot.

Yes, they definetly run hotter than Intel chips. However, they were designed to run that way. You cannot compare an Intel Chip temps to a AMD chips temp and complain about it...


I’m gonna need a case, is full tower the only way to go?

Not neccessarily. I've built all of my duallies based on full tower 6+ external bay cases up until this new build. I currently use a Chieftec Scorpio (http://www.chieftec.com/products/Workcolor/Scorpio.htm) and have a 120mm exhaust fan on a Reostat at the top of the case (http://www.xtremepccentral.com/vbforums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1476) and it works great.

And a power supply, I read posts in the past that AMD needed a compatible unit and what wattage?

If you don't already have one, get yourself a quality 300W power supply such as SevenTeam ST300-GL and you will be set. I used to run the ST300-GL on this system but a power blew out on one if the systems so I put the 300W in that system and bought myself a SevenTeam ST400-GL for this AMD Duallie. Never buy a PSU from reading its label that boasts WATT XXX! Look carefully at the combined rating for the 3.3V and 5V rail. It is usually 150Watt for a good 250Watt PSU and 170~180Watt for a 300 Watt one. This rating is the most important for the stability of your high power CPU or video card, as they both draw power on these two rails.

What is this about registered or unregistered ram? Does that matter? I’m going to enquire about the price of getting a board repaired or replaced, if that is economically viable I’ll be trying the Asus A7M266-D


Most AMD MPX based mainboards have the ability to use non-registered memory for the first DIMM slots, 1 and 2 totalling 2GB. However, the last 3 and 4 are not non-registered memory compatible. You will need to use registered memory to have more than 2GB or memory or want to fill up DIMM slots 3 and 4. You cannot mix and match non-registered with registered memory. Personally, I didn't want to pay the extra cash for registered memory, so I just for two sticks of 512MB and filled DIMM slots 1 and 2 for 1GB or DDR2100 memory on my system. I doubt I will ever need more than 2GB of memory for my system despite the huge graphic files I need to work with on some occassions.... Anyhow, I believe the mainboard you are trying to get repaired is the older model which doesn't support non-registered memory in any of the DIMM slots...

[Mntsnow]

NDC has given you some good insite. Let us know what Mobo you choose to go with as that can dictate somewhat what other parts to get.

[fshanda]

Im still not sure what to use as conductive paint/pen. Anyone have a suggestion/product that they have used with success.

[Biff]

Thanks for the replies guys. I'll check out the Pc store I go to today and find out about that motherboard. Based on that I'll post back, and make my purchases nxt week.

See ya soon - Biff

[NDC]

Any conductive pen will work just fine, fshanda. Just pick one up at any Radio Shack or any electronic store.. :)

[fshanda]

Thanks NDC, I have a Radio Shack right down the road. I'll be giving them a visit this afternoon.

[NDC]

yw! :)

Yeah, for under $10, you can save yourself about 30~40% purchasing XP processors vs. MPs... :cool:

[Biff]

OK. Here is the scoop after visiting the computer store.

I’m screwed as far as a freebie board….lol (can’t blame me for trying huh) combine this with the cost of a video card, case, hdd and such, building a second box is financially not available to me. I want to upgrade and use what I can from my current “Biffbox”

Before I commit myself I gotta say I am hesitant now. I saw an AMD CPU for the first time and I can hardly see the bridge and that’s with my glasses on! So now I’m wondering if Going with a P4 would be a better way to go? A 1.8~2.0 P4 would be a couple of hundred bucks cheaper and it removes the risk of damaging the CPU’s during modding. The cost of 2 MP CPU’s a MB + 15% sales tax puts it over $1100 Cdn. I don’t want to spend that much on a mb & CPU

Buying from web sites in the USA isn’t really that attractive, by the time I do the exchange rate, pay duty and courier costs it can work out more expensive than locally.

So I’m thinking on a mb, perhaps tyan (oc is not a concern)
2 XP CPU’s
512MB ram.

Will my 300 watt atx power supply fit or are AMD PS connectors different? and my case is P4 compatible, will I be able to use it? Any ideas?

Biff………….:)

[Mntsnow]

Bummer on the freebie board :(

Yeah our northern brotheren get beatup pretty badly on the shipping/customs/tax thing :(

If your current case is p4 compatible then more than likely you have the needed power connectors for a AMD board. (you will need the 20 pin block ATX power connector (multi colored) and a 4 pin block power connector (yellow and Black wires) If you have these on your current PSU then you should be fine :)

[NDC]

Well, if you get the Tyan , you have every possible connection so...


This mainboard comes with all the types of connections for best compatibility without the requirement of adapters! It comes with standard 4-pin ATX12V, standard 20-pin ATX, and a small 4-pin connector that you see nowadays on Intel Pentium 4 mainboards. By utilizing the auxiliary drive power connector, you can use virtually and existing ATX 2.01/2.03 standard power supply units to operate the Tiger MPX! However, you cannot use splitters to attach drives on the same power line without compromising system stability, It's recommended that you only connect the mainboard to the line if you must use the ATX 2.01/2.03 4-pin connector. Also, it doesn't hurt anything to have all of them connected simultaneously. (http://www.xtremepccentral.com/articles/archive/05_tyan-s2466n-4m/Tyan_3.html)

[Biff]

OK. thanks for the heads up on the power supply guys. I'll order the tyan board today, and pick up the 2 CPU's and 512 stick of ram when I get the board.

I think this project is gonna put me over the 1 post per week average.........lol

Biff

[Mntsnow]

Cool Biff :) I think you will be happy with the performance <zoom zoom>

[Biff]

OK. I got all the parts today, but I've been unable to find any conductive pens. I've tried 4 Radio shacks in my area to no avail, can't even find them at radioshack.ca

How bout a rear window defogger repair kit? I'm not sure if I got the balls to solder it...lol anybody got any ideas? I'd luv to hear em!

Thanks Biff

[NDC]

Rear window defogger repair kit will work... They are basically the same thing....

[Socal]

Good luck, Biff! :D

Which mainboard did you end up getting?

I've got all my parts too and gonna start building real soon myself :)

I got the Tyan S2466N-4M,1.2 MPs with Volcano 7+, 512 (x1) DDR PC2100 Mushkin Basic.

[NDC]

Spoke to him on ICQ and he also got the same board as you and me... Tyan S2466N-4M with a couple of XP1800+... :)

[Biff]

Thanks for the heads up on the repair kit NDC, I'm off out to get it now. Nxt post we be from my duallie machine.

I got the same board as you socal .........:)
Gotta run, i'm all hyped up now see ya all soon
Biff

[NDC]

All I can say is you'll be one happy camper running Poser on your new rig! :)

[Biff]

Did the upgrade gig with very little problems, I'm now in the duallie club.............lol
Andy said once I had a duallie I could join the other club and call myself "Digital Biff"

The rear window defogger repair kit did the trick, it's a one time deal though (comes in a divided packet that you mix together) I think at half the price and re usable the pen would be a better way to go! None of the radio shacks in my area stocked it though.

Only problem I had was a no post with a memory error beep. I thought it might have been a compatibility problem with the 512MB stick of Samsung PC 2700; it was in the right DIM slot. 1 or 2 for none registered. I switched it to slot 2 and it started up right away - cool

I'm just installing my appz back in now, it seems really stable and CPU temps in the bios are around 30 and 34 deg C. I'm amazed this thing is running, seemed like a real brutal way of putting heat sinks on.

As for the performance, I got no idea yet, notepad opens up really quick though….lol
I’ve basically just got W2K installed, and putting my Appz in now, but I just wanted to post and say thanks everyone for the help...:)
Digital Biff

[NDC]

Welcome to the club, Biff! :chug:

DIMM slots 1 & 2 are both compatible with non-registered DDR memory. I have a feeling you just didn't have the memory seated correctly? And as far as memory compatibility goes, Tyan can be picky at times as I have experienced with previous models. However, I've never had compatibility problems with Samsung memory, SDR or DDR memory. And also, Tyan MPX S246x series boards support up to PC2100, not PC 2700 so your PC2700 memory is running at 2100 which isn't a big deal.

[Socal]

Congrats, Biff!

I'm really glad to hear you had no problems, and hope you're enjoying the system fully by now! :D

[Mntsnow]

Welcome to the SMP Club DigitalBiff :D

[Biff]

I think I had a painless time putting it together cause of the experience here! You guys should give yourself the congrats, I just supplied the buckeroos ...lol

I'll give it a workout this weekend with some rendering...:)
DigitalBiff

[NDC]

Hey, I we want more than just "congrats" or a pat on the back! We want to see some deniro! ROFL J/K.... :D

[Socal]

Biff, what vidcard are you running?

[Biff]

I'm running an old dinosaur from 3~4 yrs back. It's a Diamond Viper 32MB 770 Ultra.

Biff

[NDC]

No more duallie dreams since you got that one fulfilled... Now for that SCSI and Video card dream we spoke about to fulfill, eh? ;)

Well, being the gamer and 3D modeler that you are, a good video card would definetly be a plus...

[Socal]

I have that same card in my P3-450 machine, Biff :) That card was da bomb in it's day :bunny:

[64026402]

Originally posted by Biff

The rear window defogger repair kit did the trick, it's a one time deal though (comes in a divided packet that you mix together) I think at half the price and re usable the pen would be a better way to go! None of the radio shacks in my area stocked it though.



Conductive pen (http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?handler=displayproduct&&lstdispproductid=587192)

This is where I got my conductive pen.
To be honest I still prefer the rear window kit with the bottle.
I just dip a sharp pencil in the bottle and it is real accurate for crossing the bridge. 1 bottle lasts quite a while.

I hope your happy with your machine. Mine have been good to me.
I do have a P4 @ 2.8 Ghz but I prefer my duallies speed wise. The price was just right at the time.

I recomend getting a 400w high quality PS or higher.
Over time I have worn out 4 PSs. 3 300w and a 350w.
Dual Athlons are power hungry.

[NDC]

Welcome to XPC, 64026402! :)

Yeah, conductive pens do go a long way. Especially when you use it just for the purpose of crossing the bridge for processors. When we did the mod for Socal's chips, we went to Fry's and picked a tube for $8.99...

[Mntsnow]

Wow Welcome to XPC Donald. Looks like your heavy into the SMP club too!

[64026402]

Originally posted by NDC
Welcome to XPC, 64026402! :)

Yeah, conductive pens do go a long way. Especially when you use it just for the purpose of crossing the bridge for processors. When we did the mod for Socal's chips, we went to Fry's and picked a tube for $8.99...

Thanks,
The only frys around here are from Mcdonalds.
Anything good around here has to come from the net. I was pointed here from 2cpu.com on Socal's build thread. Nice to see a little excitement about duallies. They're the only thing that keeps up with the workload. Have fun.

[madfish]

Way to go Biff! :)
I got Fshanda's old ESC-D6VAA Dualie with onboard IDE raid mobo with P-III 850E's. I went form 512mb to 1 gig of PC133 crucial, have two 40 gig ATA100/7200 rpm Western Digitals. TNT2 M64 32mb vid/card, LS120 Super Disk, generic Fdd, 48x cd drive. All neatly housed in an Atec 400 watt 1040SX soho case with the four option 80mm case fans. it was lots of fun puting this together and I love it.
I'm really glad Fshanda sold me the mobo and cpu's this past spring.

[Biff]

Welcome aboard 64026402, good to see ya here at XPc.

Yeah, it's pretty cool madfish, thanks. I was thinking about the D6VAA board with a couple of 1 giger flip chips last winter. Couldnt financially manage it back then, and went for a 933 P3 that I slid into my existing mb.

That side stepping dude in the poser rendering box moves a lot quicker these days...lol and photoshop just cooks :)
Biff

[NDC]

Oh, yeah! Photoshop certainly does cook on a duallie! :)