Computer running really warm ... need suggestions

[mondobyte]

I just put together a new computer.

The mobo is a Shuttle MN31N. Processor is an XP2200+, 512mb (2x256mb) GeIL WLCSP memory.

The case www.ahanix.com/blu (The Blu II) really appealed to me because of the small size. It has just enough bays, slots, etc.

I've used the top two bays (the internal 3.5 and the one intended for a floppy) for 2 LVD160 SCSI Drives. The opening for the floppy provides excellent airflow to the SCSI drives.

I've installed a SCSI CD-ROM and in the internal 3.5 next to the CD-ROM, I've installed a floppy. (I seldom use a floppy so popping the front cover off to get to it on the rare occaisions that I need it seemed not to be a big deal). I tried to install a SCSI drive here but there isn't room enough for the cables and such. (I'm using round SCSI cables to enhance airflow)

In the first PCI slot (top), I have an Adaptec SCSI Host
In the second PCI slot, I have a dual NIC card
In the third PCI slot (bottom) I installed the slot adapter for the COM port.

The AGP slot is empty.

I put it all together and it looks very nice. Works well too.

The CD-ROM and the cables for it partially obstruct the cooling fan ( http://store4.yimg.com/I/nexfan03_1773_2079928 ) with the fan changed out to a 5800 RPM TMD ( http://store4.yimg.com/I/nexfan03_1777_1339831 )

At minimal load, the CPU temp is about 52C with a case internal temp in the middle of about 42C. At full load, the CPU temp rises to a scorching hot 61C and the internal case temp goes to 50C. Too hot for my liking.

The case has 2 60mmx10mm case fans in the rear (OUT) and one 80mmx25mm fan in the front (IN). The fans are low rpm fans, I suspect to minimize noise.

I'm looking for ways to greatly reduce the heat in the case. (And no, taking the side cover off is not an option because the HD do not get airflow and overheat). The ideal option will provide for good airflow over the HD (ok now) as well as higher airflow through the case.

As a first step, I can replace the 2 60mm fans and the 80mm fan with higher volume (higher RPM and higher noise) fans.

I've also thought about installing this fan duct ( http://www.plycon.com/cases/caseduct.htm ) right over the top of the CPU but it couldn't extend down very far (maybe about 1 inch) before it would run into the CD-ROM.

Another thought is to mount an exposed fan on the top of the case.

As a thought, what about reversing the front fan to exhaust air? The problem that I see with this is that there is no openning in the front for air to come in or go out except the Floppy hole and a hidden opening on the front bottom of the front.

I would appreciate everyones comments on my ideas so far and any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks a bunch

[Shyguy]

I have no idea how to help you, but I have to ask about those cases, how much are they? & what mobo's are supported in them? Are there any nForce2 boards that can be used for them? It seems that a normal full size ATX board might not fit in there right as the AGP slot would be about where one of the case fans are located, thats why I'm asking. Also if I can get a decent board I might try buying one of these cases, they are just awesome looking, I like the blue LCD displays in front also.

[Shyguy]

Have you looked at those Zalman heat pipe HD coolers, would they work for those drives, or should should I say would they fit in there first.

[Plum Ugly]

Mondobyte here is that cpu vent cooler I told ya about. I've got a OCed 2700 running at 30C with it and a vantec tornado 80mm fan.I used a Aero7 copper heatsink after removing the blower.
http://www.jab-tech.com/customer/product.php?productid=1915&cat=39&page=1

[Shyguy]

DUDE!!!! How did you find this thing, ive been looking for something like that for a long time, had thoiught about making my own, but Ive been looking for some kind of cooling kit that could have its own deidacted intake for the CPU, without installing a watercooling unit or anything else extreme like that.

Will that kit work with additional HSF setups, I just bought a new Coolermaster Jet 7 HSF, I suppose there's noway to attach the intake tube to the Jet 7? Is there a fan on the CPU heatsink too, can it be used in conjunction with a CPU heatpipe? I could buy this one for my new upgrade, & use the Jet 7 on my existing XP2200+ setup to replace the stock HSF.

[mondobyte]

The Ahanix Blu I is $41 and the Blu II is $46 from www.dealsonic.com. These cases are on close-out as they have been discontinued.

The motherboard that I am using is the Shuttle MN31N (microATX Nforce2 with IGP nVidia geForce4 with onboard everything. There was an Oops on Pricewatch last weekend ... Newegg $69 shipped.

I purchased 3 Cases and 3 Motherboards, 2x256mb dual channel ddr PC3200 for each and XP2200+ for 2 and an XP2400+ for the other ...

With dual SCSI LVD160 Drives, SCSI-CD, Adaptec SCSI Host, and a dual NIC card ... these are ready to rock as soon as I lower the internal case temp.

Plum ... those ducts look great ... there just isn't any room ...

[mondobyte]

Oh ... about the cases ... what is really cool is that the LCD panel monitors the fan speed in the PSU. It also measures UPTIME as well as current time and has a sensor for temperature inside the case.

The Blue LED's can be set to be on whenever power is present to the PSU or only when actually powered on. I set mine to be on all the time.

[Shyguy]

I'll have to see if my brother can order one for me using his credit card, currently don't have one. they look great, if I can get a good mATX board for it I'll see about putting my existing 2200+ & GF4 Ti 4200 in it & see if I can get that Jet 7 to fit in there, then see about getting a good heatpipe setup to make it into a good quiet number crunching machine & part-time gaming machine.

Thanks for the links!!!

Oh I forgot is that mobo you mentioned, the same that shuttle uses in its SFF PC's or is that board a little bigger?

[Omardeth]

i told ya not to go with the micro atx case . :p

but it is over with now and we need to cool ya down some .

you could try one of these in a open pci slot on the case
http://store.yahoo.com/buyextras/sysblowslotf.html

and even go with something like this to mod into the 3.5 bay to suck are in and the slot fan in a pci slot to suck air out .
http://shopping.yahoo.com/p_startech-com-pc-slot-mounted-dual-fan-case-cooler_computer-accessory_1990756527;_ylt=AmKgp.dPo1VsVmTyoplEb50b Ft0A?&clink=dmps/case_slot_fan/ctx=mid:5,pid:1990756527,pdid:5,pos:10,spc:1448911 5,date:20040210,srch:kw,x:&__yltc=s:14489115,d:96426593,sec:sr,slk:title,ppos :10,pos:10,pdid:5,id:1990756527,lt:4,src:PS1,tr:22 3,k:case+slot+fan

[Omardeth]

the board suttle uses in the SFF case is a fn51 or something like that it cost like 200$ !!!!!!!

the board mondo got it mATX it is bigger than the SFF mobos

[Shyguy]

You could do what I did a couple of years ago, mount a 120mm fan on top of the case, trust me that'll get the air flow movin, rrrrrreal good!!! if you do just make sure you don't make the same mistake I did, I didn't drill enough air holes in the top for the airflow (didn't have one of those hole cut out things), so the damn thing sounded like a hoover vacuum on steroids. that & the fact that I already had 2 rear case fans, Pci slot fan, CPU fan, 2 GPU fans, chipset fan, 5.25" bay fan with 2 40mm's, & a front case fan. There was so many fans & the airflow was so hectic in the case that it defeated the purpose of having so many fans, so I got rid of half of them including 120mm, & didn't make much difference according to the bios's temp reading, so the extra fans were basically overkill.

Seriously Though, I can't think of a single thing to do, since your using the only 5.25" bay for the CD-rom, thats out of the question, & the only open 3.5" has a HD in it cause the other internal doesn't have room for the cables & stuff, so thats out, there's no sense putting a fan in an internal bay cause your not gonna pull in fresh air so thats out. You don't have an open PCI slot cause all 3 are being used for cards or the com ports, is the top most expansion slot in back shared with the AGP port, if not mounting one of those PCI slot fans might be your only choice, short of modding your case with air holes or blow holes. Honestly though your case has plenty of rear exhaust flow, its just the intake that sucks...LOL, maybe a higher flow faster front case fan is all you need. also on that open 3.5" bay with HD in it maybe you can mod the 3.5" cover with some small air holes & filter to allow a little more breathing room for the top part of the case, as with plenty of rear exhaust fans the front air flow will have a natural sucking effect to replace the air going out teh back, so some more open areas up front could help air flow better too

[Omardeth]

you could also put one of these http://www.excess-solutions.com/blowers.htm in the 3.5 bay to move air outta the case .

[davidw]

Originally posted by Shyguy
mount a 120mm fan on top of the case I was gonna suggets this.

[Shyguy]

omar, are you talking about the regular blowers or the squirel cage blower? I'm guessing your talking about the regular blowers as the other won't fit in a 3.5" bay. Global win used to make a 5.25" HD fan setup that consisted of a squirrel cage type blower, it was called the I-storm I think. You can easily pick up one of those regular blowers at the nearest radio shack. the thing is, the way I understand it is that he doesn't have a 3.5" bay that is "open", just an internal so if he was to mount one of these in there he would need some sort of conduit or tubing to mount over the end of the blower & find an exit point somewhere in the case.

[mondobyte]

An update.

I ordered new fans. I was fretting about the wait until they arrive until it suddenly dawned on me that I have all these RETAIL AMD Heatsinks laying around ... 4 lovely 60mmx60mmx10mm ball bearing fans with a lot more pizazz than the ones that came in the case.

I swapped out the fans and indeed there is more air flow ... and now ... full load (with a room that is 2C warmer too) the CPU temp is 54C. At full load the internal case temp is only 42C. Both of these temps show a big improvement.

I wonder how much difference a higher CFM 80mm fan might make ... another experiment to try.

I'm thinking of mounting a 70mm exhaust fan in the side near the top or in the top of the case.

[davidw]

Go for broke and install a blower fan while your at it too! :D

[Shyguy]

You'd be better off sticking one in the top as hot air rises, most of the hot air in a case is trapped up by the PS, if you put one on the side of the case, that would help too, but then there's all that cable that you have to disconnect to take the panel off & if the fans depth is to far in you might have problem with it bumping into the cards or CPU, you could just make an air vent in the side panel over the CPU HSF that would help draw in fresh air from the sides for the CPU. Also I don't know if it would help but see if you can find some real deep 80mm fans like the kinds they use on some of the real good HSF (like 60x60x25mm), but in 80mm size, the airflow should be pretty good with those, as they are almost a cross between a traditional radial fan & a blower fan.

[davidw]

I'm thinking about going Antec with a 120! :)

[Shyguy]

I agree, my 120mm Antec fan is actually pretty quiet, not a whole lot louder, than my current system with 4 case fans, PS, CPU, Chipset & GPU fans all comnbined, just haven't installed it into either of my newer systems. Just make sure you core out a hole for it if you get one, as I mentioned above I didn't have enough airflow in my old system to use it efficiently. Also it couldn't hurt to put a fan or to on the right side panel "under" the motherboard, as that can help exhaust warm or intake cool ambient air for the system too. I wouldn't recommend putting a 120mm fan on that panel, as the reduced air flow under the mobo, would make it extremely loud.

[mondobyte]

Ok folks, the jury is in on these ...

The three computers are now identical with the following exceptions:

Unity - XP2400, Fan on CPU is 5800rpm TMD - OC'd to 2.1 - CPU Temp is 48C

TheBrain - XP2200+ (AUIGB), Fan on CPU is 4500rpm TMD, OC'd to 2.029 - CPU Temp is 43C

Pinky - XP2200+, (KIXIB), Fan on CPU is 5600rpm TMD, Stock, CPU Temp is 53C

It seems to be the processor chips that make the most difference!

43C is a very acceptable temp!!

[Shyguy]

Good work!!! All good to hear mondo, but how come the third is running hotter stock than the other 2 OCed?

[gino x]

Yea, some improvement has been made :)
Odd - like mondo said earlier the chips make most of the difference - just like there are ones better suited for OC'ing than others I guess...

[mondobyte]

At this point ... I have 3 nearly identical systems.

There are 5 processors that have gone through these systems.

There is an "original" xp2400+ that is OC'd to 2.147 running at 53C

There is a swapped XP2200+ that is OC'd to 1.895 running at 45C

There is a "new" xp2400+ that is OC'd to 2105 running at 51C.

Temps are up tonight as it is 65 outside even as we speak. Bizarre weather for February here.

I have an "original" XP2200+ running in an XPC at 61C at stock (ouch!). This machine has a ICE heatsink and stuff usually runs at a really nice LOW temp. It's the chip.

I have an "original" XP2200+ running in a very ventilated case (usually runs XP2200+ OC'd to 2025 at 31C) ... OC'd to 1925 and running at 51C. It's the chip.

Even with the impaired airflow of the very small cases, some chips run at reasonable temps, some do not.

I am waiting for the AS to "break in" and see how low the temps go before I come to a "final" conclusion.

I may yet cut holes in the sides and put in side fans in these cases to get the temps even lower. We shall see.

[mondobyte]

This is what the 3 computers look like now.

http://files.mondobyte.com/dcp_2762.jpg

Next step is to mod the sides - add windows and a side fan

The plan is to mount a 70mm x 70mm x 15mm TMD fan in the side for two reasons ... there isn't really that much square area for a fan and there isn't enough depth for a standard 25mm fan.