Fad

[geobot]

my biggest point total so far on my slowest computer cpu rating 120 it took 8 days

247 10789310 1e7u-q1 m35751 85 10100 632790.00 21220



three updates and it still doesnt show up in the stats.

[PresterJohn]

niiice! :)

if your slowest cruncher scores 120...you're doin' all right. :eek: my slowest is a quad pentium 200mhz box...each cpu scores 15. :D

[GohanSSJ]

My best was like 16k i believe.

There are 3 computers crunching under my name, 130 cpu rating, 115 cpu rating, and like 95 cpu rating.

[serlv ( Zippy )]

My slowest, by far, usually scores 145.

[sharder8]

Originally posted by serlv ( Zippy )
My slowest, by far, usually scores 145. W-E-L-L my slowest scored an 8!! :p

And it is a Packard Hell 120MHz, named TwinkleToes, that I've now retired to the trash bin! :bunny:

Harder

[Twinkletoes]

Originally posted by sharder8
...my slowest...named TwinkleToes...retired to the trash bin! Yeah. Well if there's anybody around who is so stupid that they can't understand why I'm always going for Idiot Sharder, does that statement help explain things !

Zippy, I fear me you have been found guilty of undermining the morale of us lesser mortals. You will be shot at dawn to put you, and us, out of our misery. You may have a last wish (just for a laugh).....

[sharder8]

Originally posted by Twinkletoes
Yeah. Well if there's anybody around who is so stupid that they can't understand why I'm always going for Idiot Sharder, does that statement help explain things !

Oh-Oh . . . . . .

Sounds like TT isn't happy I "trash bin'd" his namesake!! :eek: :p

I can dig it out of the snowbank and ship it to ya' if ya' want TT (As long as you pay shipping and handling!) :bunny:

Harder

[geobot]

four updates and the 20k point job does not appear. the one on the machine after it 2332 points appears. is it lost ???

[Twinkletoes]

I dunno whether this will help you... (http://www.find-a-drug.com/stats/jobs.php) Send Support at FaD a stiff e-mail....

[geobot]

its not listed. will send an email thanks tt

[Twinkletoes]

Anything I can do to help an old man on his way...hope somebody else will do the same for me tomorrow...

[geobot]

FAD says: Thanks for your e-mail. Could you send me your server.log and we will
investigate further next week.

WHAT am i suppose to send??

[Twinkletoes]

Originally posted by geobot
WHAT am i suppose to send?? Sounds suspiciously like he wants to have your server log.

[Twinkletoes]

There's a text file called server.tlg in your FaD directory. (In XP it has the "Notepad" icon. Send it as an attachment, but make sure you dont call it mydoom. Or copy it straight in to an e-mail

Edit: (the last couple of weeks, or whatever is relevant, not the whole thing !)


Edit. I just checked. In fact the file is actually called server.log on my machine. Sorry.

[geobot]

thanks tt i found the server notepad that shows the job being uploaded. forwarded the job before and after also.

thanks for the info

[serlv ( Zippy )]

Originally posted by Twinkletoes


Zippy, I fear me you have been found guilty of undermining the morale of us lesser mortals. You will be shot at dawn to put you, and us, out of our misery. You may have a last wish (just for a laugh).....

:p with TT.

Heh, I did what you and sharder are doing. I dumped, or sold the lesser machines. At one time was running a P-2/350; it crunched but not all that strongly I'm sure. Also sold off a BP-6 with twin 366 Celerons ( my first build, ran at 551 MHz x 2 for a loooong time ).

Then there was the P.O.S VIA 733, it rated a 5 with Think. Figured that was a waste of electricity and replaced it with an Epox 8RDA+/1700+ combo running at 2300 MHz. A hell of an improvement in rating, for sure.

[mondobyte]

Zippy ... am taking your lead myself.

3 of my Dual Pentium 200 machines (score 7 on each CPU) are being replaced with 2 XP 2200+ and an XP2400+ ... all the parts are ordered ... waiting on Fedex and UPS at this point.

Each will get 512mb of dual channel DDR PC3200 memory ...

Anyone interested in a very nice dual pentium 200 computer? I have 3 to sell - oops ... 3 SOLD FAST ON XPC

Dual Pentium 200 processors (non-mmx)
256mb 60ns Parity Fast Page Mode RAM
Onboard Sound (AWE32/64)
Onboard Ethernet (AMD)
Onboard SCSI
SCSI CD-R
SCSI HD - (2 or 4) gb Seagate Barracuda
3.5 Floppy with 2 PCMCIA slots
PCI Video ... will do 1024x768x16 at 75Hz refresh (matrox 4mb, s3 virge/dx 4mb)
Windows 2000 Professional Licensed copy
Office 2000 (2 have Pro, 1 has Premium) Licensed copy

Asking $125 each (software is worth that!) + actual shipping cost

[serlv ( Zippy )]

Sounds like lots of building coming up, Mondo.

I'm waiting on some parts to for my screamer.

And actually have parts on hand for another cruncher ( finally got my ac together and RMAed and received replacement NF7-S rev 1.1 board ), but for once I'm not opening a case this weekend. Sick of it, need a break. Will be busy enough once the Prometia Mach II gets here, figuring out what the hell I'm doing. LOL

Have beeen cruising innumerable forum's pages looking for RAM info, timings, best available, settings, tricks, etc. Hoping to end up with a 2800 MHz ( + ) AMD system. That oughtta fix me ( ya think? ) :)

[gino x]

I think so Zippy :)

[Plum Ugly]

Mondo ya got pm.

Zippy,I predict ya will never be happy til it gets over 3G.

My slowest was a twin 500 Plll(74),So I converted it to a server for fad.Mostly I'm getting 145-280

[geobot]

i got this email from FAD

Thank you for the server.log.

I'd like to offer my sincere apologies for loosing these results. We had a
problem on www.find-a-drug.org.uk and our first two attempts at resolving
the problem did not work although they appeared to do so at the time. We
finally tracked it down to an incorrectly set disk quota which resulted in
the perl script sometimes appearing to run without error but in fact failed
to write the results to disk.

We endeavour to anticipate problems. Nonetheless, when an unexpected
problem arises all we can do is take action as quickly as possible to remedy
it.

Regards
Keith Davies

----- Original Message -----
From: <geobot@adelphia.net>
To: <support@find-a-drug.co.uk>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 8:29 PM
Subject: lost job


> i submitted the following around 3:00 on the 30th of january
>
> it still doesnt appear in any stats
>
> 247 10789310 1e7u-q1 m35751 85 10100 632790.00 21220 GG-LDVOHLLCLMRO
>
> its an eight day job and 21k points hate to loose it
>
> thanks
> george grabar
> geobot@adelphia.net

does this mean its lost?

is it worth resetting and doing again?

IT only had 85 hits but ran in excess of 632,000 seconds = 8 days

[Twinkletoes]

Originally posted by geobot
...all we can do is take action as quickly as possible to remedy
it...
Translating from diplomatic UK English, yeah, it does seem as though it's lost, and worse, I take that as meaning you ain't gonna be credited with it manually either, which surprises me a little, or in fact, a lot.

Maybe that's FaD's policy, I dunno. Anybody else know ???


Re-set it and do it again ? I wouldn't, but that's up to you.

I gather from something Keith wrote a long time ago, that the really interesting molecule fits are not found individually. Things tend to build up to a crescendo, as it were, and it is highly unlikely that one of your 84 hits is going to be a real goodie occurring in splendid isolation. I explained that badly, but I hope you get what I mean !

[geobot]

the fact it took 8 days on a computer with a cpu rating of 120 doesnt mean anything. is that correct thinking. its the hits that count and nothing else. im a at a loss to the exact way the program runs as far as results go.

[Twinkletoes]

At this stage I would certainly not agree with those who say "it's the hits that count".

I view our crunching at the present time as a way of eliminating billions of combinations of molecules and proteins from further consideration. At the end of the day we will hopefully be able to say "well that group seems to be worth looking at in more detail, that group does too, but we can forget about those, those, those, those, those and those and so on almost ad infinitum."

So if you have had 1 hit, 84 hits, or 500 hits in a group which goes on for further study...well think of it in that perspective. IMHO.

[geobot]

to the people that got certificates for finding molecules with promise, did they ever know which molly they crunched that had the good results? Were they big hit jobs? long jobs?
OR is this all just blind luck and never knowing which job you finish could be a good one

[Twinkletoes]

Originally posted by geobot
...just blind luck... Bang on !!! Just blind luck. And every job you finish is a "good" one anyway, because it represents a very very small - but very very essential - step to what we're looking for.

Again we must (unfortunately) keep things in perspective. There's no such thing of course, but if tomorrow a combination which was absolutely 1000% "IT" was found, how many years would it take before it was available as a standard prescription drug do you think...

I'm an engineer, so I couldn't even guess. Mickwish ? CBB ?

[Cowboybooter]

Certificates indicating activity, also contain the molecule number, as seen in the Trophy Room, click on My PhotoGallery to view some!

A standard prescription drug, I'd say 3-5 years, clinical trials on consenting adults maybe about a year, depending upon the elements of the compound and other interactions!

For example, one of the immunosuppressants used after Renal ( kidney) transplantation, is so successful at preventing rejection of the kidney, it is still used despite the fact that it renders you open to a myriad of other infections, and is CytoToxic, prepared in a fume cupboard with full PPE to prevent exposure to it!

:)

Bob

[geobot]

i am irritated by the loss of this job [21k points] ... if i only had one machince crunch for 8 days just to end up with nothing i would be &^%#$. I lost more points and molecules in the past and it still ticks me off. i am starting to think i might take up another project. I know its not about points and standings but my interest is fading. maybe a new project, a new team or just a break in the action may help.

[PresterJohn]

geobot, sorry to read about the reply-back from find-a-drug. no one likes to lose points, esp on a job which ran for so long. i think i can feel a little of what you're feeling.

fyi..... i did a large dump back last sept which amounted to more than 131,000 points. there was a technical problem w/one of the fad servers which resulted in none of those jobs registering (the loss represented about 6 days of crunching time). needless to say, i was feeling pretty upset...even thought a little about dropping the project or at least, drastically cutting back. i was asking myself, "why am i spending money paying for electricity to crunch work that never gets counted?"

it took a couple for weeks for the bad feeling (mainly, disappointment & frustration) to go away. you are not the only one to feel the pain. a number of us long-time crunchers have had jobs missing from our totals.

the reality is, it's not a perfect world. things break down...things don't work as well as we would always like them to. this sort of stuff happens with many DC projects.

i hope you don't let this stop you from crunching FAD with us. i consider you to be a very valued member of this team...please don't let some lost jobs influence you to leave this very worthy cause.

[Twinkletoes]

Originally posted by geobot
... i am starting to think i might take up another project. Well just you finish starting to think about it this very moment !!! You think I want the honour of being the oldest b*gger in this team ???

If it's any consolation to you, I seem not to have been credited with 5 jobs which were uploaded to find-a-drug.org on 30th January...8 daysworth at 400 MHz. If it had been a faster machine I would have been p*ssed off too, but when you lose things on a slower machine...Grrr!

But from your and PJ's experience, there doesn't seem to be much point (sic) in contacting Support, because the team's not gonna get any points for it anyway ???


PS --- Dammit. Now I come to think of it, I'm a Welshman, and I'm not gonna let Keith treat Welshman like than ! I'll send him a mail. Let you know what he says.

[geobot]

i asked keith if he thought i should run it again. he said no others already have returned the job. so they get 21k credit i loose 21 k credit witch is a 42k spread. how did they get theres uploaded an mine didnt if its a script problem it was only when i uploaded not the other people. how strange is that. i have serious doubts about this.

Thank you for the offer. The job has already been returned by other members
and I dont believe it is important to repeat it again.

Regards
Keith Davies

[dannychuckle]

I think it'd be nice if each installation of Think kept a copy of each result it sent so that they can be resent if necessary. The amount of data sent is usually <5KB so it'll use up a little bit more disk space, but they could be purged regularly after checking it was received by the FaD server. Will post in 'suggestions' later.

geobot - obviously it's up to you whether you stay or go, but think of all the other results you've returned that will be useful. I'm sure that won't be the last mistake made at FaD, but for the other 99% of the time its spot on.

[davidw]

I think you should still get the credit for your "donation."

[Twinkletoes]

Originally posted by geobot
... they get 21k credit i loose 21 k credit witch is a 42k spread... With all due respect for your greater seniority, I most certainly would not like to do serious business with you !!! That is as blatant a bit of double-counting as I've seen since Justin and Janet had their wardrobial misfunction at the "Superboob versus Superbowl" show.

EITHER they are now 21 k ahead of you, OR you are 21 k behind them. Take your pick ! You can't have it both ways.

Now that must have cheered you up so much that you're gonna re-consider, right ?

[Twinkletoes]

Originally posted by Christian-Comp
I think you should still get the credit for your "donation."

I agree C-C. It doesn't seem reasonable to ask you to send in the server log if you (and more importantly, your team !) are not going to be credited with it !!! Not that 21 k is going to bring down the world, but even so, that upsets me a bit that does.

I wasn't going to bother to send in my 8 daysworth at 400 MHz (about 6 k - I hope PJ doesn't read that !!!) anyway, so another shrug of the shoulders is in order.

[PresterJohn]

>I wasn't going to bother to send in my 8 daysworth at 400 MHz (about 6 k - I hope PJ doesn't read that !!!) anyway, so another shrug of the shoulders is in order.

why would i have a problem w/that?! anyone with problems w/jobs not showing, are encouraged to contact keith to try to get them resolved.

i do however agree w/what TT, ie. that while clearly, geobot is out 21K in points...i don't see it as a 42K swing. (geobot simply wasn't credited with the work for the cpu time spent).

[Twinkletoes]

Originally posted by PresterJohn
...why would i have a problem w/that?! I was simply referring to your keeness to get every point possible on the scoreboard...no hidden content !
anyone with problems w/jobs not showing, are encouraged to contact keith to try to get them resolved.
I strongly suspect that Keith's reply to Geobot (post #21 above) regarding the find-a-drug.org.uk server applies to my jobs as well. (Unless I've got problems over and above that, in which case I'd better pull my re-partitioning tools out again !)

[PresterJohn]

>I was simply referring to your keeness to get every point possible on the scoreboard.

i wonder how you got that impression? :confused:

no, what i have spoke about in the past repeatedly on is redunancy & finished queries, ie. when they reach 100%, unprocessed jobs should be deleted from the queue, etc. also spoken about that old topic of how many instances of FAD should be run on machines but nothing that focused specifically on points or pt production.

people lose points over various issues, whether it is because of technical problems on find-a-drug's end or when the jobs get stalled in the queue, or when they get mysteriosuly corrupted. the forthcoming new client release should help in getting past the fatal errors whic holds up the queue processing.

[geobot]

the main question is if it was a 2k or 5k i would not have noticed it missing but the error may not happen at those numbers. with five machines running fad i just upload and look at w2kuser stats ... is it just the big ones that get lost? who knows for sure unless everyone watches closely.
Why did other people that crunched the same molly get credit and i dont the error only happened to me, kinda hard to believe. in reality we play the numbers game, we hope we find cures but if one molly in 100,000 or whatever number actually finds results, and im sure its higher. the interest in the program is stats. if everyone just crunched and there were no stats of anykind, how long would any dc project last. keith would have been way smarter to just award the points and never stated it got lost. the credibility of the software becomes questionable to me now. anyway im going to take a break from the action for a while.

[Twinkletoes]

Originally posted by geobot
...the error only happened to me... That can be explained quite easily Geobot.

There are four servers which we upload to (see the cgi.lis file in the FaD folder):
http://www.find-a-drug.org.uk
http://www.treweren.com
http://www.find-a-drug.net
http://www.findadrug.org


Which server you actually get at any time is based initially on your geographic location, but if the first choice is busy, or down, you get re-directed to one of the others.

I can see from my server log for my own missing jobs that at one point in time my computer repeatedly tried all four unsuccessfully. And then it finally got through to the first one on the list above, and we know what happened then (post #21 above). So you and I were unlucky. The other guy who did the same job as you presumably got allocated to a different upload server. QED.

Note that the above explanation is based on what I've picked up around the FaD boards. It not necessarily correct in detail, but it is in essence.


PS --- I don't really really think it's fair to quarrel with the credibility of the software. The servers, yes, but that's not the software's fault.

Keith, yes, I think it's fair to quarrel with him. I see no point in asking people to send details of lost mollíes and then not credit you with them. Does that mean he doesn't trust the server logs of his own software, or that he thinks maybe you have fiddled with them (for 21 k points !!!), or, to be as kind as I can, does it mean that he doesn't have enough free staff to feed your server logs into the records manually. Maybe. We know he himself works all hours, and I certainly would not like to think that he should "waste" his own valuable time on such menial tasks.


So have a break if you think you need one - you could always download a bunch of jobs and then switch your computer on and hide it (or yourself - in which case don't forget your bedpan !!!) away in a cupboard for a couple of weeks.

[Twinkletoes]

Geobot,

Again it's poor consolation, but it's not just us !!!

Read from say Page 5 on in this thread from the FaD Boards !!! (http://forum.find-a-drug.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=2718&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60)
:eek: :eek:

[Twinkletoes]

Unconfirmed rumours from sometimes relíable sources say that Pixiebot (long-time captain of Deep Thought aka Team 2042) has left the project, presumably over this very issue. But that's my guess, after reading his latest couple of posts in the thread linked above.

So now let's show 'em all what sort of stuff this team is made of !!!

Geobot, get your computer and/or yourself out of that cupboard immediately !!!

[tmx468]

Certainly it would be nice if things were running perfectly, but lets face it, life is never so perfect.

It is fun being part of a team, jostling for position and so on, but you should'nt lose sight of the aim - crunching the mollies.

No matter if a few mollies are lost (and their resultant points), as the mollies are on the servers, and will be counted.

Giving up over this would, IMO, be a bit picky.

We chose to take part, dedicate our CPU time, so give them time - as Keith said, they are getting record numbers of jobs sent in - Fantastic! :D:D

[mondobyte]

Originally posted by dannychuckle
I think it'd be nice if each installation of Think kept a copy of each result it sent so that they can be resent if necessary.

As long as you don't delete finished Jobs from the QUEUE, all the data still exists!

I've been running my QUEUE Server since April ... I NEVER REMOVE JOBS!!! He He He ...

At this point I have 4613 Finished Jobs occupying about 46 MB on HD.

[Twinkletoes]

Originally posted by tmx468
No matter if a few mollies are lost (and their resultant points), as the mollies are on the servers, and will be counted.
[/B] Tmx, in all fairness to Geobot, the mollies are not on the [FaD] servers, and - as I read Keith's mail to Geobot - they will not be counted.

But Keith's reply to LaurenU2 regarding his missing 1000+ jobs on Page 5 (my Page 5 !) in the above link seems to indicate the contrary !

[Cowboybooter]

Geobot,

You have to do what you have to do! But please, don't give up, or slow up, on the project! The very next job you do could be The One! Who knows?

Okay, the numbers game is what keeps it interesting for some, the participation in the team activity works for others!

It's a shame that the FaD servers have been borked for a while, but hey, things break! Even XPC went down for an hour or so once, if that can happen, anything can!

Don't stop!

:)

Bob

[Twiztid Truckie]

Why would you stop your crunching over a stats problem. THIS IS FOR A GOOD CAUSE, not for fun. If you dont feel like helping out sick fellow men/women/children, then why did you start crunching. Seems to me your being quite childish (no offence:(), but this is what it looks like to me. Just my $.02.

Truckie:) (proud FaD member)

PS: I'm not in it for glory, just wanted to help out...like eveyone needs to remind themselves about, not just you Geo:)

[geobot]

Seems to me your being quite childish (no offence),

my last post
yes offence

[Plum Ugly]

Geobot,I too have had this happen on several machines.twice I've had two OCed 2700's run 3 days and lost the results. Just keep on plugging away,it's all fer a good cause.

On the slower machines ya need to keep a watch on when the mollies are finnished at fad then delete them out of your queue so ya don't run the finnished ones.

[Win2Kuser]

I'm going to add my $0.02 worth...

If a job has been completed and uploaded, you should be credited for it - period!

You have a log of it, and the completed job is still in the queue on your computer, I think for Keith to disallow the points is crazy.

Send him an email basically saying what you feel and that you will pull the plug if you don't get the points. See what he says then.

Sure, it might only be 21k points, but it is principle. I too have had jobs lost forever, ok no where near 21k's worth, but it does piss you off.

I really do hope that you are not going to call it a day with FAD. I have come close to pulling the plug myself, but then I think of all the good this client can do, and I just bite my lip and plug away.

If I didn't have harder breathing down my neck, I'd give you 21k of my points just to keep you here :)

[geobot]

Originally posted by Win2Kuser
I'm going to add my $0.02 worth...

If a job has been completed and uploaded, you should be credited for it - period!

You have a log of it, and the completed job is still in the queue on your computer, I think for Keith to disallow the points is crazy.

Send him an email basically saying what you feel and that you will pull the plug if you don't get the points. See what he says then.

Sure, it might only be 21k points, but it is principle. I too have had jobs lost forever, ok no where near 21k's worth, but it does piss you off.

I really do hope that you are not going to call it a day with FAD. I have come close to pulling the plug myself, but then I think of all the good this client can do, and I just bite my lip and plug away.

its not the points. if you remember at techimo i once started under a new name at the bottom of the stats .... again i say its the principle of the thing. others have had the same problem and have had there points given after some time. others dont get them. if i or anyone had only one computer and sat for 8 days waiting for it to finish to end up with no points because of FAD problems they would most likely to move on to another dc project or quit altogether. i am only running five machines and im letting them finish there queue's. at this time im thinking of running weather predicttion. ive spent more time than i wanted to over this mistake. i dont think one man doesnt make that much difference, as knew people will join. im going to sell off three machines as i now feel i got two involved in this project.

If I didn't have harder breathing down my neck, I'd give you 21k of my points just to keep you here :)

[Twinkletoes]

Originally posted by Twinkletoes
Unconfirmed rumours from sometimes relíable sources say that Pixiebot (long-time captain of Deep Thought aka Team 2042) has left the project, presumably over this very issue. But that's my guess...Unfortunately the rumours were true, and the guess was correct. Pixiebot's explanation makes sorry reading, but for those who want to read it, it's here. (http://forum.find-a-drug.org.uk/viewtopic.php?p=60282#60282)

[Twinkletoes]

Keith's response, which was posted about an hour ago, was:

Pixiebot As I have stated by e-mail, we do not know what happened to these jobs and are still investigating. While these are a significant number of jobs it is a very small fraction of the 11,000+ results we receive per day - and a small fraction of your contribution to this project.

We are sorry and surprized that you are leaving us. It is apparent from the logfile, that these results were uploaded using a beta version of 1.23b. In the past some members have suggested that participants in beta testing should not get points and their results should not be used. We can dream that no results are lost, but in reality this will happen despite how hard we strive to fix the problems after the results are lost.

We do not give credit for jobs which are recorded in server.log as being sent simply because some other members would be prepared to fabricate this file and send it to us claiming to have lost jobs.

My suspicion is that there is a bug in v1.23b server which resulted in these jobs being lost but until we find one that can reasonably explain the behaviour, we cannot be sure this is the case. (Note: there is a bug in 1.21l which occasionally results in large jobs being received in error).

We had hoped that you might provide further information including the server build you were using.

Thank you for your contribution.

[PresterJohn]

i just read keith's post myself a few minutes ago. i am sorry to see pixiebot leave. :(

it appears to be that his problem was caused by the new beta client. i would like to point out something that might be obvious but bears repeating.

beta testers should always be prepared for unresolved problems with jobs, etc. it can mean potentially, that you may lose any (and possibly all work) on those machines running the beta.

i congratulate & applaud those in the FAD community who are taking the time & initiative to run & test the beta. but if you are not prepared for possible problems with the test client, THEN DO NOT RUN IT ON ALL OF YOUR MACHINES. designate one or two test machines (which is what i have done) and play with it there.

i would hate to see more people leave this project because of frustration & disappointment caused by related circumstances.

[Cwizard]

Originally posted by PresterJohn

beta testers should always be prepared for unresolved problems with jobs, etc. it can mean potentially, that you may lose any (and possibly all work) on those machines running the beta.


Unfortunately, in the Linux client, it is turned on by default. I just had one machine that got hosed but I know people running big Linux installations had a mess.

IMHO, a client should not go public that breaks things. It should be tested before release.

I'm winding down my participation as well in the project. As my machines finish up, I'm shutting them down.

It's been my experience with 5 years of DC, that the people organizing the projects are not people persons. They have no clue about motivating people or keeping people involved. When a problem happens, it's usually, SO WHAT.

So, I can understand where Geobot and Pixiebot are coming from. You can only take the, "It's for a good cause." rationalization so far. The bottom line is the participants are donating money in both equipment and electricity. The electricity is a BIG expense.

I'm leaving the points with the team because it's not the team's issue, it's a callous management to the project. I reached my personal goals of 4M points and will wrap up 5 years of CPU time. I still have a few machines finishing out jobs as I only started shutting down yesterday.

To lose long term people over denying them points is rather short-sighted. People like Geobot and Pixiebot, who have contributed a ton of points, are not going to scam for extra points. It is insulting to use that as an excuse. Look at the contribution of the user. Don't assume that well, if I give it to one, then EVERYBODY will fabricate technical problems to get points for nothing. How insulting. Sure, there are people that would do that but not someone that has put in millions of points.

Anyway, my .02.

Time to move on.

Cwizard

[Win2Kuser]

:(

[THINK]

We are very sorry that some jobs have gone missing. We are much more concerned that a relatively small number of missing jobs is causing this much negative reaction.

There is a tough balance between resource demands for all aspects of this project. I'm sorry we're not perfect we make mistakes. However, despite such mistakes we have and will continue to make great progress.

[mondobyte]

.... patience and persistence will get us to the goal ...

Stats are just "frosting"

Grow up folks. Setbacks are a fact of life.

I have lost more than a few jobs in the shuffle ....

[mondobyte]

The other perspective is that the "geniuses of science" have no clue how to maintain the motivation of us "simple folk". I.e., they are brilliant but have no common sense.

Personally, I don't believe that "giving up on them" is the best approach. We have to harp on their souls until they understand and bend to the needs and motivations of us "common folk". Patience and Persistence ... both to find the cures ... and to "socialize" the geniuses behind the project. In my experience most geniuses are nonconformists and totally oblivious to the hopes, desires, goals, and motivations of the common person. Unless we "reform them" they are doomed to failure in the long run.

I think the project captured our imaginations and entreated us to begin the search. I hope that THINK, et al, will bend to the necessities of human nature and see this project to a succesful conclusion. If they do not "adjust" to the "social necessities", I do not think that most of us will continue to support a doomed project over the long haul. As each of us reach our Waterloo, we will depart. This is not in the best interests of the participants (WE) or the goals of the project. How can geniuses be such IDIOT SAVANTS when it comes to human reaction and behaviour???
spelling and grammar

[THINK]

geniuses of science
they are brilliant

I (and other staff) have been called many things. "Maverick" springs to mind - and that is probably more accurate than Mondobyte's complements! But whatever you call us we continue to try to do our best ... but we appreciate that at times this is not good enough when we can only apologize.

[sharder8]

Well, I should add my .02! :rolleyes:

I've been pretty quiet lately, as my output has been running a wee bit slow, . . . . . . . so I've been a little depressed. :(

I agree with Mondo, that the points are but "the frosting on the cake". :D

I have also lost jobs in the past, Keith and company have found and credited me with some, while some are still lost. :(

Each person has to look at what they want out of the project and then decide whether they will stay or leave. I've chosen to stay because, while I like the points and the competition . . . . . . . . I'm in it for the end results, the easing of suffering. :bunny: I have to fight with my wife almost daily to keep the herd running, and I don't know how long I'll be able to keep her from pulling the plug on over half my herd. :rolleyes: I've come to look at the loss of jobs as nothing more than life. There's setbacks, but you just continue on working and hoping that it will get better.

I hate seeing people leave for any reason, and I hate seeing jobs/points lost. But these things happen and life must go on. I think that Keith and Co. are trying their best, I know they've put in many hours and will continue to put in many more.

All I ask is those of you that are thinking of leaving, or staying, give Keith and Co. a chance, some time, and assist in any way you can to help solve the mystery surrounding the lost jobs. If it means taking a little break, then take a little break. But please think about restarting the program or at least checking in to see if the problems have been solved and the missing accounted for.

Harder

[Twinkletoes]

Originally posted by sharder8
I agree with Mondo, that the points are but "the frosting on the cake"

That might be so for you and Mondo, Sharder, but we don't all tick for the same reasons. If the frosting on the cake appeals a lot to Geobot and Cwizard, so be it.

You can't brush it off as easily as that. You state that you yourself have asked to be credited with missing jobs, and sometimes you've been given it, sometimes not. Why should Geobot not have been credited with his ???

When Geobot went to the trouble to send in his logs (after posting here first to find out how to do it), and Keith then takes the time to reply:

We finally tracked it down to an incorrectly set disk quota which resulted in the perl script sometimes appearing to run without error but in fact failed to write the results to disk.

We endeavour to anticipate problems. Nonetheless, when an unexpected problem arises all we can do is take action as quickly as possible to remedy it.

...all we can do is take action as quickly as possible to remedy it... Yeah, well he can say that again..

Take action as quickly as possible in my mind would have been to have realized that with x billion points on the FaD Board, 3 million of them scored by Geobot, 20 000 points is indeed "a minor bump in the road". But it was nevertheless a bump which Geobot felt, on a matter of principle after the amount of time he has donated. (Keith doesn't know how old he is, and that bumps in the road can be very dangerous for him.)

I don't know the technicalites of so doing, but had it been my problem, I would have given him the points straight off, asking for the logs purely as a formality to deter those other members who "would be prepared to fabricate this file and send it to us claiming to have lost jobs."

No, as usual, here I am sticking up for the underdog, vehemently. It is the principle which counts, if it's important to people.

Maybe we voluntary crunchers should get together and form some kind of trade union to do battle with these upstart employers...

:)

[PresterJohn]

>You can't brush it off as easily as that.

guys,

let's not beat the issue to death. the fact of the matter is there will be times when jobs will get lost and the 'lost work' won't be recoverable. keith may not have a perfect track record when that happens but that is life...ie. "life isn't always fair".

if you are bothered by it enough that you feel the need to leave the project, then the decision is yours to make.

i'm not trying to brush it off...we already know that jobs have been lost or not counted before...and it will probably happen again. but you just have to pick yourself up, brush yourelf off, and start again.

[sharder8]

Originally posted by Twinkletoes
That might be so for you and Mondo, Sharder, but we don't all tick for the same reasons. If the frosting on the cake appeals a lot to Geobot and Cwizard, so be it.

You can't brush it off as easily as that. You state that you yourself have asked to be credited with missing jobs, and sometimes you've been given it, sometimes not. Why should Geobot not have been credited with his ???
I'm not trying to brush anything off TT!! :rolleyes:

I've been in the position that Geobot's currently in, and was fummin' mad, just like he is!! And I certainly wouldn't ask him to just go about like it never happened!! He earned the points/time/ and mollies crunched!!

I'm very competitive as you already know, but I personally now would rather help Keith in finding the problem and correcting it, in what ever little way I can. I can't explain it, but for some reason . . . I've had a change of attitude in some areas. :rolleyes:

Harder

[mondobyte]

Lest my post be misinterpreted. Keith also deferred and did not credit me for my lost jobs. Was I upset -- yes. In fact, I was totally brushed off.

Am I still upset ... yes ... but not enough to let Cancer, MS, HIV, etc. win.

[geobot]

ive had time to cool down and i think this thread will accomplish nothing.

my opinion is much the same. the biggest problem is everyone is not treated the same. why credit some and not the others. what does fad use for a rule of thumb. i had the server log and for some reason they did not feel they should accept it. no explanation just no your not getting points. if you read the fad forums they gave points with no more proof than i provided. any project should be run with consistency. thats not much to ask. it was if they were calling me a liar when they decided not to award the points... i wouldnt cheat and further more do not know how to cheat. fad's people skills need a lot of improving as far as im concerned, to just say you aren't getting the points with no more than we had server problems as reason, then to award others for the same job i did is questionable. as i stated people draw lines in the sand and can argue this to death and it will do no one or fad any good. i think its time to let this thread end. i do applaud tt for his indepth study of the problem, and i have an even higher respect for him. i apologize to anyone that i may have offended in this conversation and may we all have learned some lessons in this.

[sharder8]

Geobot --

YGPM!

[THINK]

The current stats implementation does not enable us to give credit for jobs which we do not have. The revised stats should. We have previously stated that we are open to the idea of a stats adjudicator who can decide whether credit should be given for results which we have not received in a valid form. This judgement would simply be a policy decision on the odd occasion when there is a data corruption which still allows the details of the job to be identified. However, even this is readily open to abuse. There has been some discussion months ago on the FaD forum about possible abuse and we were able to confirm that there almost no grounds of suspicion in the results to date.

With hindsight, we should have reverted in 1.23b beta not to delete results file and although it is too late for some we will do so in the next build.

We dislike losing results probably more than members dislike losing points. However, the required remedial action is the same: identify and eliminate problems whenever we can.